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Saturday, January 31, 2015

Bruce Trans-Jenner

An article today in People Magazine confirmed the rumors that have been flying around for the past several months, that 1976 Olympic decathlon champion Bruce Jenner --

is transitioning into a woman:

(I dunno…..I think she's hot. I'd do her!)

I understand that there are people who, through no fault of their own, have never felt comfortable in their given gender and who want to make the switch. These people often have hormonal imbalances and show characteristics of the other sex from early childhood.

But the decathlon is one of the most grueling events in sport, a ten event marathon which tests every facet of your speed and strength and agility and endurance. In other words, it's basically a testosterone contest.

So when an Olympic champion decathlete decides to make the jump, it's a little more jarring.

It may have to do with the fact that he was widely rumored to be on steroids back in 1976, when steroids were pretty much in their infancy. As I explained here back in 2010, Jenner was juicing back in the era when it was not understood that you were supposed to cycle the steroids, i.e., go on and off them so that your body's ability to produce testosterone naturally didn't entirely shut down.

Jenner didn't do that, so once he retired from track and field, he had very little testosterone, which made him feel, naturally enough, like a woman.

(Don't mess with Mother Nature.)

So, now, he's taking the final step.

One has to wonder how this makes the other surviving Olympic decathlon champions feel. Do they feel their gold is just a bit tarnished?

My guess is, yes.

Update, 2/1/15: Thought I was being clever with that headline, but it looks as if a couple other people beat me to it. 


Anonymous said...

You could be right John, which really sucks for him not knowing that you have to cycle the steroids.

Other stories I have heard about transgendered people was they had the feeling like they were the wrong sex from an early age.

Interesting a have a friend who took steroids and his whole face changed (He posted them on Facebook). I think he started steroids around early 20's and ended up with a big jaw, broad set of teeth and big brow. He looks way more masculine (and better) post steroids. I think he has taken it too far now (10 years later) and his muscles look too big for his frame.


John Craig said...

Andrew --
I bet the guy you knew took human growth hormone as well as steroids, that is a much more likely explanation for the bigger jaw and teeth and brow. People who are acromegalic end up with those traits, because their pituitaries produce an excess of human growth hormone. I don't think steroids could change the shape of your face that way.

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah your definitely right about the HGH.

There's more than a few athletes who end up getting braces late in life. You can't say it's from HGH but it's very common and slightly suspicious.


Steven said...

Why would they feel that their gold is tarnished? He wasn't womanly at the time he won it.

John Craig said...

Steven --
I was just joking about that.

Remnant said...

He has six biological children, at least four of whom were born after 1981, with the other two born sometime between 1972 and 1981. That doesn't seem it imply low testosterone during that period.

John Craig said...

Remnant --
True. As I was going through another article looking at timeline photos of him, he looked fairly healthy back in the 80's and into the 90's as well. It made me wonder if there wasn't some sort of delayed reaction to the steroids. Or if maybe he continued to juice a little into the 80's and 90's.

The thing I don't understand is how a guy who was so healthy early on and was attracted to a sport like the decathlon would have this issue. Usually the transponders are dressing up as females from an early age, want to play with dolls, etc. Jenner's case reminds me a little of that Navy Seal who became a woman recently. I didn't know what to make of that, either.

Steven said...

And Frank Warren, the British boxing promoter who managed or promoted Lennox Lewis. He announced his intention to become women and went on the Briish big brother tv show as a woman. He said he'd always felt like a woman.

Steven said...

Sorry, Frank Maloney, not Warren.

John Craig said...

Steven --
Maloney, even tough he was associated with boxing, was never all that masculine himself.

I'd be more surprised if, say, Mike Tyson announced that he was transitioning.

Anonymous said...

I have noted the physical changes that Bruce Jenner is going through (via the media), feeling sorry for the man. Has he always felt like a woman or was this brought on by the lack of testosterone, due to Bruce taking steroids in his lifetime. If it's due to steroids, that's a god-awful side effect (feeling like a woman, then taking the steps to become a woman).


John Craig said...

Birdie --
I can't answer that question, I was only speculating about the steroids being responsible. I suppose it's possible he always felt like a woman inside and somehow the decathlon represented some kind of overcompensation. I just don't know.

Quartermain said...

If I would have said in the late '70's that Bruce Jenner would someday get a sex change operation, I would have gotten some strange looks.

John Craig said...

Allan --
I remember back then he was considered a sex symbol, women -- who were not track and field fans -- used to talk about him a if he were a god. I always thought he was awfully bland-looking, and also looked a little like a rat. (A male Sandra Bullock.)

But yeah, no one back then suspected a future Christine Jorgensen, that's for sure. He/she was the first person to ever get the operation, to my knowledge, and was widely considered a really sick, grotesque freak. It's a good thing for Bruce he's got an entire political movement paving the way for him now.

Anonymous said...

Hey John--Yeah, I don't know (maybe he doesn't either) but if you consider all of the men who've taken testosterone for "low T" as well as HGH and then gone off it, and just those who have very low T, I'm not seeing them turning tranie. Plus I once took HGH for a year or so then went off it and if anything my libido for hot chicks has only gotten worse. Anyway, I would think that he's just a natural female by wiring and probably he was repressed early on and sublimated it by being an athlete. Of course as usual, I'm probably wrong. Brian

John Craig said...

Brian --
You're absolutely right, there are tons of people taking TRT etc these days, but these days they seem to be a lot smarter about how they do it, cycling and so on. (And TRT is done in relatively small does.) I think -- and of course this is speculation --back in 1976 they didn't know about how to use it wisely, and Jenner just went on it for a year or two straight. And when he stopped, he found that things had changed.

But, as I said, I'm just guessing.

Anonymous said...

Spartan said…

As I mentioned in a previous piece of yours, low test due to rood use is reversible with time. I believe that he must have been using some hard recreational drugs that may have destroyed his mind. This makes no lick of sense.

John Craig said...

Spartan --
Could well be. He looked healthy enough through the 80's, even into the 90's.

Remnant said...

It would be a cruel irony if the treatment Jenner actually needs is TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). That he has been sliding down an emasculating slope of ever increasing estrogenation (?) has led him to the probably erroneous conclusion that the feminized him is the "real him."

He should be pushing himself back up ths slope rather than giving into the downward trajectory.

If he actually does through with surgery, don't expect a good outcome. The suicide rates of post-op "trannies" is the highest of any identifiable group.

Search and check out the Swedish film "Regretters" about two post-op trannsexuals who ... well ... regretted it.

Jenner seems like a truly cantankerous and unlikeable individual but I certainly would not wish such a mistake upon him.

I half wonder whether the fact that he was surrounded by so much estrogen for decades in the form of his wife and the numerous Kardashian daughters, it that hasn't somehow rubbed off onto him....

John Craig said...

Remnant --
That's interesting about post-op trannies, I hadn't heard that before. I have to imagine you lose a lot of sexual feeling when you get your penis chopped off and made into a fake inverted vagina. (And when you go in the opposite direction as well.)

I've never actually seen the Kardashian TV show (despite what I said in the previous post) so have no sense for Jenner's personality. But I can imagine that if you've got the feeling that you're in the wrong body eating away at you, that would make you pretty cantankerous.

I had actually wondered the same thing about Jenner being surrounded by all those females.

jova said...

Jenner , like most men who have their genitalia mutilated, suffer from a mental illness.

These people should not be encouraged to castrate themselves.

Jenner , like many older men who choose to get great implants, and have dress like females....are still heterosexual...they do not want to be females...they have a sexual fetish , an extreme version of cross dressing...if they truly wanted to be females I would expect them to be attracted to men , and have a desire to be dominated by men ...yet many of these men have no desire for men, they remain sexually attracted to females, but their fetish has become too strong and in today's culture few people are willing to tell them they need physiological help not surgery

John Craig said...

Jova --
I've heard about this, but have never quite gotten the men who do this to themselves yet still remain attracted to females. I know it exists as a phenomenon, but yikes…..

The problem with psychological help is, I'm not sure it would downy good in a case like this. Just as there's no "cure" for homosexuality, I doubt there's a cure for this. Someone should just explain to Jenner that he'll have much better orgasms with his own equipment than with shredded and inverted equipment.

jova said...

The highest paid "female" executive, Martine Rothblatt , like Jenner, a successful Alpha male, who was married with children...and like Jenner , remains sexually attracted to females..and remains married.

Christopher Beck, he was deployed as a SEAL 13 times,... Beck earned a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart.

What Beck seems sure of is, "I'm not a gay man, I'm not a drag queen, I am not maybe total dude, and I'm not total feminine, I'm not totally female," Beck said. He remains married and sexually attracted to females..

In fact , very few gay males ever want to get castrated. Transexuals are mostly straight guys, who have a strange fetish, getting off on dressing like females....almost none of them are gay, since gay men prefer to be with other men, so becoming female would destroy their sex lives....Homos enjoy dick, so would be upset if their boyfriend shad them amputated...

I agree these men can never be cured of their "fetish" , but they can be taught to enjoy the bodies they were born with , no need to change their fetish, bout they can certainly learn to accept their bodies, just as anorexic women learn to accept their bodies.

John Craig said...

Jova --
I know it's a real thing, but it's a little hard to get one's head around.

You have to wonder how their wives react. Given that some of these guys remain married, that's a real credit to the understanding nature of their wives.

I agree with you completely about how these guys should be treated.

jova said...

Lana Wachowsk , another famous transexual...wealthy film director ...married with children...then had his sex change operation divorced...and married another female..

Contrary to widespread belief, the majority of trans women start off not as effeminate gay men but as straight men, and they are motivated by erotic compulsion rather than by any conceived female identity. … To describe the syndrome, Blanchard coined the term “autogynephilia,” meaning sexual arousal at the thought of oneself as female. It is an extreme Fetish, similar to cross dressers, they get sexually aroused by dressing up like girls, but are attracted to females. The condition in not related to their sexual orientation.

John Craig said...

Jova --
Thank you for all your explanation, I'm definitely better-informed now than I was before today.

I guess autogynephilia must be what Jenner has. But as you said earlier, it's a pity he doesn't just keep the fetish AND his genitalia. He can always get off by just imagining himself in the opposite role. He is 65, too. I don't see this having a happy outcome.

Remnant said...

See the following editorial by a doctor arguing against allowing surgery for transsexuals. He notes a suicide mortality rate 20 times that of the normal population for post-op men.

I'm somewhat surprised the WSJ would still publish something like this because the transgender movement has quickly moved into the territory of the un-criticizable and unquestionable.

Cross-dressers are a totally different animal, if you will, from transgender. Cross-dresser are just straight men who get a thrill from dressing up. Transgender people are convinced they are in the wrong body.

I agree with the other commentator (and the doctor who wrote the editorial) that the latter is a mental illness, pure and simple, that should not be humored by the medical profession.

The following two articles (one in two parts) present some very interesting but also commonsensical views on the issue from a rightwing and white nationalist(!) perspective.

Remnant said...

Apparently, Jenner is going to sit for an interview with Diane Sawyer about his "transition".

It would be great to write in to her to ask if she will discuss some of the topics you raised here such as whether his suspected steroid usage contributed to a hormonal environment that led to his doing this. Of course, she would never ask him any such challenging questions.

The first comment to the article announcing the interview is a classic:

"The first American Olympian to go from the Wheaties box to the Fruit Loops box."

John Craig said...

Remnant --
Thank you, I didn't read the WSJ article because I would have had to subscribe, but read all three of the Counter-Currents articles. (I assume from what you said that the main point of the WSJ article was the suicide rate of post-op trannies, which is a fact which should definitely get more publicity.

The Counter-Currents articles were excellent, made me look at the entire question in a different light. They certainly have liberalism nailed. The idea that homosexuals are using trannies as "human shields" is interesting. (Meanwhile, the gay rights movement has disavowed any association with NAMBLA, and, when you think about it, adults who are attracted to children have no more control over what/who they desire than any of the other people in that rainbow banner.)

I've always had more sympathy for the gay rights movement than most on the right simply because I don't think people should be discriminated against for things they can't help. On the other hand, I wouldn't shrink from describing these difference honestly, and I despise people who lie about human differences (hence, this blog). And I think that will prove the Left's ultimate undoing: the fact that all of their attitudes are based on fictions. Which is why the articles like those in Counter-Currents are breaths of fresh air.

Remnant said...

Glad you liked those articles. I agree that they are a breath of fresh air.

It is a reminder that one reason the true right (I don't consider Republicans or the mainstream conservative movement in America "right wing") is so dangerous is precisely because so much of our society is based on lies, and while they may not be correct about everything, the true right wing today is at least willing to speak the truth as they see it.

What does it say about our political culture that the only ones providing a compassionate and yet norms-based analysis of transgenderism are people considered outside the pale of any respectable discourse?

On a similar topic, I highly recommend Guillaume Fay's "Sex and Deviance", which was just released in English. Faye is impossible to classify in traditional political terms. He is right wing but in a radical, not conservative, way, and also very understanding and realistic about the inevitability of technology in influencing society (unlike "conservatives" who try but fail to hold back the clock). He brings this perspective to bear on a wide range of sexual issues in this book, and the results are fascinating and very "outside of the box": He defends traditional families but also puts forward a case in favor of prostitution, certain forms of homosexuality and is quite radical in his views about technology and sex. Anyway, thought I would mention it in the context of this discussion.

John Craig said...

Remnant --
Yes, current "conservatism" is mostly neo-conservatism, which is basically just pro-Middle East War liberalism. It's been impossible for the Republicans to nominate anyone from outside this mold. As much as i already despised obama by November of '08, I couldn't bring myself to vote for McCain either, as he represented the worst of that element.

A tremendous amount of energy goes into brainwashing the masses against any sot of commonsensical tinkling on group differences, to the point where honest discussion of such has become taboo, or beyond the pale, as you say. Anyone willing to think for himself can see through it, but there are surprisingly few people willing to do so. But, that's what's been the most wonderful thing about the internet, the flowering of alternative news sources.

Fay sounds interesting. Prostitution should be legalized, it's silly for it not to be.

Anonymous said...

john craig,

as per all known reports, the eastern european countries where prostitution is legalized have women compete to be attractive to men. they cannot just coast by. it has become increasingly clear that past the same rights under law, feminism is sick people trying to inflict misery upon others and drag others down to their unhappiness level. what a sad world feminism has created in your country.

John Craig said...

Anon --
I would agree, much of feminism is url women who are bitter at the world trying to get their revenge on it by twisting the natural rules of interest conduct into something unnatural and therefore less enjoyable for others.

I"m not sure that they've actually created a "sad" world, though. They get a lot of publicity, but the the vast majority of people ignore their social edicts, even when those edicts have been legalized.

Bone Daddy Dawg said...

I don't follow the OPs intended point. Jenner looked feminized before beginning his transition because of bad plastic surgery, including a bad nose job and bad partial facelift. Sosa looked feminized because of presumably bad skin-lightening procedures; ditto Jacko.

John Craig said...

Bone Daddy Dawg --
It's a little more complicated than that. yes, all those things contributed to Jenner's feminization, but there was also the factor that his testosterone levels must have dropped drastically after going off steroids.

With Sosa, that same factor applied. Sosa weighed 160 while in the minors, then went up to 220 (of pure muscle) in the majors, meaning he went on a pretty extreme program of steroid ingestion. So, when he went off them, his face lost that hard gristly look he had at his peak and his cheeks softened and became feminized.

Jackson had the opposite thing happen to him. He was fed female hormones at the age at which he should have reached puberty, and so his voice never got much lower, and he never developed much muscle, and his sexuality became twisted. His father did that to him because Michael's prepubescent voice was a central part of the Jackson 5, and his father wanted to keep that money machine going for as long as he could. That was a good part of the reason that Michael Jackson hated his father all his life.

Bone Daddy Dawg said...

John--not sure if you know this, but it wasn't until Dan Duchaine popularized the use of Clomid in the 80s and 90s that anyone did anything to boost testosterone levels after coming off steroids. Bodybuilders and powerlifters--who took far higher doses for far longer than track athletes--simply STOPPED.

Jenner has described knowing he was female since he was 5 years old. His desires to transition has nothing to do with any possible 70s PED use.

If you look at Jenner in 1977 or 1978, he looks facially almost identical to the Jenner of the Olympics, and no more feminized than Arnold or Franco any other bodybuilder post-cycle.

Of course, he's now on estrogen. No idea what Sosa is on, if anything, or why he is on it. Ditto Jacko.

John Craig said...

Bone Daddy --
Thanks, interesting, I hadn't known that about Clomid.

I did read that recently about Jenner. Surprising, or, maybe, not so surprising. It certainly makes my theory erroneous.

Is it possible Jenner was still juicing in th'77 and '78? He certainlylooked feminized by the 80's, and I doubt he was taking estrogen back then. He was married and having kids.

Nunya Bizniz said...

The sad fact is that there is no rational reason for anyone to change their physical gender. There is no such thing as an objective "gender identity". Such things are, by their very nature, subjective.

Bruce has decided to make a mockery of his previous life achievements. That's his right. It's his life. But let's not all of us get caught up in the fantasy that any of this has anything to do with science or technology or some sort of advancement in social order.

Bruce Jenner is a tragic cautionary figure. Don't let yourself get caught up in celebrity and bizarre, nonsensical emotionalism.

Anonymous said...

I was at the grocery store this morning and I saw a picture of Bruce Jenner (aka Caitlyn) on a magazine cover. My heart sunk just looking at the picture. He does not look good as a "female." I don't know about anyone else, but I'm disappointed in his appearance, feeling very sorry for him - this happens every time I see him appearing as a "woman." To me, it seems tragic.


John Craig said...

Birdie --
I couldn't agree with you more. I think we're supposed to feel sorry for people like that, and offer them whatever psychological counseling we can. Jenner has evidently felt out of place in his body for practically his entire life, according to him, and that can't have been easy. Celebrating transgenderism, though, is another matter. It's not something that should be encouraged, especially given that evidently a lot of people who go through the surgery regret it later on.

Anonymous said...

It's a spectrum.

Dresdin Archibald said...

Several things here.

First of all, no one is certain Jenner even took steroids in the first place. Sure he was more muscular then but that was when he was training. He isn├Ęt now.
Second, storoids do not have this effect on users. If they did you would have many, many more transgenders.
Third, even if they did they would be unlikely to have such a long term delayed effect.
Fourthly, how in hell is his gold medal tainted. Female performances are always LESS than male, not more, so how did being a woman (another absurdity) when he won taint his gold medal. Most ridiculous thing I ever heard of. If anything that would make it even more astonishing that he could beat the best men on the planet as a woman.
Fifth, loss of testosterone does not make you feel like a woman, it just takes you to a more neutral place. Certainly not enough to want to be a women.
Sixth, Jenner is a secondary transgender, trnasvestite type. He is not a primary transexual who always wanted to be a female. Big difference.