tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post6922851267766139515..comments2024-02-17T04:06:00.805-05:00Comments on Just Not Said: The fashion sensibilities of black pro athletesJohn Craighttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-39733967612109536462015-08-23T07:22:19.408-04:002015-08-23T07:22:19.408-04:00MarieCurie --
OK, you've caught me; I just wri...MarieCurie --<br />OK, you've caught me; I just write about sociopathy in order to hide my own….<br /><br />I actually disagree with that as a criterion for sociopathy: EVERYBODY is attracted to signs of beauty and strength, if not quite in the exclusive way that sociopaths are. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-38417417851013524602015-08-23T02:30:48.409-04:002015-08-23T02:30:48.409-04:00"Never Matures. Attracted to Superficial Sign...<br />"Never Matures. Attracted to Superficial Signs of Beauty and Strength: Very into physical appearance..."<br /><br />Oops, John, this isn't you, right? (Noticing/writing about other folks' appearances... jk :-)<br /><br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-delaney/have-you-ever-been-duped-_b_3618497.htmlMarieCurienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-27378988181853123112015-07-12T19:23:20.531-04:002015-07-12T19:23:20.531-04:00Anon --
That's a good point about them not dre...Anon --<br />That's a good point about them not dressing for the office. And I agree, they do look sharp -- IN THEIR OWN WAY. Which is to say, they seem to have taken some of those fashion show outfits seriously. <br /><br />But that aside, I don't disagree with anything you said. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-61680329061716983392015-07-12T19:21:19.673-04:002015-07-12T19:21:19.673-04:00I think some of these guys actually look pretty go...I think some of these guys actually look pretty good, even in some of the more ridiculous outfits. Plus, it's not as if they are dressing for the office, they are dressing to get attention from the paparazzi, the Hos, and their rivals and fans. And I'll bet more than a few were being paid to wear that stuff. Most are high testosterone, high ego, preening peacocks. So if you've got it, why not flaunt it, particularly if a few extra bucks come your way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-11015851927004266062015-07-12T09:33:32.045-04:002015-07-12T09:33:32.045-04:00Neither could I. They're a manufactured pop ba...Neither could I. They're a manufactured pop band for teenage girls. There is very little chance that their music is good.<br /><br /><br /><br />Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276736643046430370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-64877267532016455172015-07-12T02:38:22.223-04:002015-07-12T02:38:22.223-04:00Steven --
Ah, Led Zeppelin and PInk Floyd, I had f...Steven --<br />Ah, Led Zeppelin and PInk Floyd, I had forgotten. And the Eagles and Aerosmith. My knowledge of pop music basically peters out after the 70's. One Direction is just a name to me, I couldn't name a single one of their songs. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-63981744670121152182015-07-12T00:21:15.908-04:002015-07-12T00:21:15.908-04:00If you look at the best selling artists of all tim...If you look at the best selling artists of all time (verified sales), 5 of the top 6 bands are British while 5 of the top 6 solo artists are American. <br /><br />Led Zepplin and Pink Floyd are British bands in the top 6 you never mentioned. The best selling ever American bands are The Eagles and Aerosmith. <br /><br />Elton John is the one British solo artists in the top 6. <br /><br />Right now, amongst the young ones, the biggest band is One Direction (British). <br /><br /><br /><br />Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276736643046430370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-33517415124545291132015-07-11T21:48:36.062-04:002015-07-11T21:48:36.062-04:00Steven --
Aha, thank you.
Actually, that had nev...Steven --<br />Aha, thank you. <br /><br />Actually, that had never occurred to me, but it's a good observation. The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Herman's Hermits, Eric Burden and the Animals, the Kinks, Queen, theDave Clark Five (I know, I'm really dating myself), U2, Although, back in the day, the US had plenty of bands as well (the Beach Boys, Buffalo Springfield, Cream (mostly American), the Grateful Dead, the Doors, Creedence Clearwater, etc. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-89718517478704243442015-07-11T21:05:55.832-04:002015-07-11T21:05:55.832-04:00Irish singer songwriter who was pretty famous in a...Irish singer songwriter who was pretty famous in about the 70's. I guess he never made it in the states. He used dress like a schoolboy. <br /><br />Which makes me wonder which famous British artists that we take for granted as part of popular culture don't you know about as an American? There must be quite a lot. <br /><br />btw have you ever noticed, the worlds biggest bands are British while the biggest solo artists are American?Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276736643046430370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-30913218943055810292015-07-11T19:23:17.997-04:002015-07-11T19:23:17.997-04:00Steven --
I've never heard of Gilbert O'Su...Steven --<br />I've never heard of Gilbert O'Sullivan; at first I thought it was Howard Stern. He does look like a dandy though. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-91006745098523681852015-07-11T16:00:06.386-04:002015-07-11T16:00:06.386-04:00I just saw this and thought it wouldn't look o...I just saw this and thought it wouldn't look out of place in this article:<br /><br />https://www.facebook.com/gilbertosullivanofficial/photos/a.703384493099301.1073741829.687886917982392/719282988176118/?type=1&theaterStevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276736643046430370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-26456071635332240912015-07-11T07:20:28.156-04:002015-07-11T07:20:28.156-04:00High Arka --
I agree that a good salesman will lea...High Arka --<br />I agree that a good salesman will leave you feeling good about your purchase as you walk out the door. And I agree about the worthlessness of various cultural edifices. But I don't think most salesmen have quite the power that you ascribe to them. <br /><br />I've stayed away from (and couldn't afford) artwork, and have no desire for fancy footwear or cigars. But I have dealt with luxury car salesmen (I've had one fancy car in my life, which I bought 14 years ago, still have, and plan to have for another 6 or 10 years). I never felt manipulated by those salesmen, to be honest; those cars pretty much sell themselves. The only car salesman I ever found manipulative was the one who sold me my Toyota Corolla in 1996. <br /><br />I also used to work for a firm which peddled financial products (though I wasn't a salesman). Trust me, those financial products were never perceived as "flashy." Some were arcane, but the people who bought the more arcane product were generally sophisticated investors. Money itself is sexy, but individual stocks and bonds themselves are not boast worthy, at least until after the fact ("I made a killing on…."). And all of the salesmen in my department were pretty staid, straightforward types who had surprisingly little pizzazz. There were a few who proved untrustworthy, but most were okay. Surprisingly, the sociopaths tended to be more on the trading side. <br /><br />I've dealt with tailors, too, and none that I've met have ever had social engineering in mind. If they were that sophisticated, I doubt they'd be tailors. (They do try to promote snob appeal, though, I grant you that.) <br /><br />And a manager's primary concern is how he can extract the most in fees from his client. Generally, this takes the form of seeing that the client is as successful as possible. I've known a couple, and both were very concerned with keeping their client happy, so that they could keep their jobs. I agree, though, that those with clients whose career spans are shorter-lived (as with pro athletes) would have less concern for their clients' long-term satisfaction and more concern with milking them in the short term. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-34012250796653295682015-07-11T05:42:34.700-04:002015-07-11T05:42:34.700-04:00That's the brilliance of the best kind of sale...That's the brilliance of the best kind of salesmen: they leave the victim feeling as though the transaction were positive, even after the money is gone and the product has worn out. The most powerful salesmen have constructed vast cultural edifices to convince people of the value of their worthless products. Ergo Tyson is mad at Don King for honest embezzlement, but not at the many luxury import dealers he's visited--because Don King doesn't have magazines news programs, and fan clubs devoted exclusively to embezzlement (as opposed to exotic cars, watches, shoes, etc.). <br /><br />You seem to have had the fortune of not interacting with a lot of "luxury products" salespeople. Artwork, footwear, cigars, vehicles, and financial products can all be made to appear flashy, and in really convincing ways; particularly to people, like pro athletes, who don't understand the true nature of the elite signaling that occurs between "establishment types." (And God bless you for that!) <br /><br />In fact, you might even say that tailors and managers guide ignorant new multimillionaires into such bad ideas on purpose, in order to produce peacocking effects to allow the establishment to more easily differentiate between themselves, and those who are only meant to be wealthy for a generation or two. High Arkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14723123626955733759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-75289546053519399002015-07-10T06:35:15.055-04:002015-07-10T06:35:15.055-04:00High Arka--
What these guys do actually has a slig...High Arka--<br />What these guys do actually has a slightly different flavor than what the nouveau riche usually do. With the athletes, it's more about showing off to each other; it's not about trying to fit in with the traditional upper class of this society and doing a lousy job of it. I think LeBron and Dwyane and company couldn't care less about fitting in with, say, the traditional East Coast WASPy establishment types, or with the Jewish people at the top of the power structure on Wall Street or in the media. These guys just want to have fun, not put on airs. <br /><br />What does them in is not the purchase of bonds or mutual funds (I'm not sure how a mutual fund can be "flashy"). What does them in are, most of all, all of their hangers on: their relatives and former friends from the 'hood who have their hands out (and who recommend investing in a nightclub or the like). It's the women who try to get pregnant by them so that they can get child support payments which they themselves then live off of. And it's the hard partying lifestyle, where they can spend thousands in a single night buying expensive champagne and tipping strippers. It's also the purchase of fancy cars (plural) and homes. <br /><br />I agree that they have a lot of jackals descend on them. But it's more the personal managers who just out and out steal their money through embezzlement and false expenses (think Don King), not ordinary stockbrokers or car salesmen (I don't think car salesmen can just jack up the price of a car or the add ons much beyond their retail value anyway, their dealerships wouldn't allow them to do that). And the relative and old friends. Most of these athletes would e a lot better off if they bought a portfolio of bonds and mutual funds. <br /><br />Real estate tends to be a sleazier business, I grant you. But if you ask Mike Tyson these days who he resents most, his answer would probably be Don King and Robin Givens, not the various car salesmen he encountered along the way. (He also evidently hates Desiree Washington.) John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-34715972195865641962015-07-10T04:27:33.867-04:002015-07-10T04:27:33.867-04:00Remember the context of all of this, too. These g...Remember the context of all of this, too. These guys are, generally speaking, coming from poor backgrounds and suddenly having a lot of money to spend. In that sense, they're like any other nouveau riche: easy prey for snake oil salesmen. If a skilled salesman gets his hands on someone inexperienced, it's easy to make them feel inwardly nervous, out-of-place, and embarrassed, and convince them to blow a lot of money on pointless crap. <br /><br />Fast, flashy, stupidly impractical (and uncomfortable) cars, and flashy, ugly clothes are part of it. But so many of these other suddenly-rich athletes fall prey to a lot of worse things. Spending $4 million on clothes is certainly a big heist perpetrated by some enterprising tailor. But imagine what happens when LeBron goes to his financial advisors: he ends up getting sold a bunch of specialty bonds, high-fee mutual funds, annuities, etc., which are flashy and expensive, but which really have the purpose (like the clothing) of extracting high fees from a money-newbie and transferring them to a parasitic class of salesmen. <br /><br />Think about all of those jackals descending on the poor, stupid athletes...guys selling fine watches, guys selling luxury cars, guys selling convoluted mansions, guys selling custom stereo equipment and hot tubs, guys selling clever financial products... <br />High Arkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14723123626955733759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-56598836793425172892015-07-09T23:49:10.959-04:002015-07-09T23:49:10.959-04:00Anon --
Just Googled them to find out who they wer...Anon --<br />Just Googled them to find out who they were. Yes, Cherry is outrageous, though he seems to be doing it as sort of a joke. Melrose dresses more like a typical NBA athlete in terms of his suits and voice of colors, though he doesn't seem to have all the accoutrements (diamond earrings, indoor sunglasses, pocket hankies, etc). John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-49668054247470894742015-07-09T23:12:52.606-04:002015-07-09T23:12:52.606-04:00Just four words to add to the subject,.... Don Che...Just four words to add to the subject,.... Don Cherry, and Barry Melrose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-80309075048122937062015-07-09T04:57:37.394-04:002015-07-09T04:57:37.394-04:00Ambrose --
Thank you. I basically agree with every...Ambrose --<br />Thank you. I basically agree with everything you say, but after looking at enough of these pictures, I actually found myself being -- believe it or not -- a little more sympathetic to their sense of style than I had been. Yes, they're gaudy and over the top and look foolish to our eyes. But once you see enough of these outfits, the realization sinks in that for us to be judging them by our standards is also a little unfair. They look ridiculous by our standards, but in the end, they have their own standards, which are far more colorful and ebullient and really, celebratory. And by their standards, we look like drab little birds. They're peacocks, and we're peahens, and in their minds, there's no question as to which it's preferable to be. <br /><br />By the time I was finished writing this post, I found myself still critical of some of these guys for simply paying too much attention to fashion, but a little less so for the outrageous styles. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-68603507348899376982015-07-09T02:15:33.685-04:002015-07-09T02:15:33.685-04:00A very insightful post John! I've maintained f...A very insightful post John! I've maintained for a long time now that blacks seriously lack fashion sense. I know I'm generalizing here, but I've seen it too many times. There's nothing subdued about what they wear. They go out of their way to be noticed and they often do it through mis-matched clothing and wearing too much 'bling.' They are gaudy and flashy, and they seem to have little sense of the concept that 'less is more.' <br /><br />They will frequently wear the most outlandish suits, and then parade around like a peacock completely oblivious to how ridiculous they look. Most people are kind enough to not say anything (or just fearful that they might get attacked!), but a good many of them I'm sure privately snicker and laugh at such odd sights. <br /><br />I see it as blacks mimicking the fashion sense of whites (although, admittedly, many whites too have poor fashion sense), but because so much of what they say and do is over-the-top, it carries over into their choice of attire. Go to any black church, and you'll see the most ridiculous outfits that screams, "Hey everyone, look at me!" bluffcreek1967http://www.ambrosekane.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-39761417104004583042015-07-08T20:45:00.085-04:002015-07-08T20:45:00.085-04:00Rifleman --
Good point -- I'm sure the black a...Rifleman --<br />Good point -- I'm sure the black athletes laugh at the white athletes for looking like such slobs. <br /><br />And yes, the actual Shaft wouldn't have been caught dead in those jeans. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-35127312670165106292015-07-08T20:36:10.925-04:002015-07-08T20:36:10.925-04:00As goofy as these guys look on a computer screen i...As goofy as these guys look on a computer screen imagine 6'6"+ in person in these outfits! Must look like giant clowns.<br /><br />Michael Jordan in the leather blazer with the acid wash Mom Jeans! LOL.<br /><br />Not showy just wrong.<br /><br />On the other extreme from this are White guys dressing like retarded slobs and adult age children. Trying way too hard versus not making any effort at all.Riflemannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-14258088079337114662015-07-08T18:57:35.995-04:002015-07-08T18:57:35.995-04:00Steven --
I don't think I could honestly call ...Steven --<br />I don't think I could honestly call it "research," it was more just Google-Imaging. It was actually sort of fun to write, though it did take more time than I like to spend on a post. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-56832212690501353092015-07-08T18:54:28.150-04:002015-07-08T18:54:28.150-04:00I also notice there are more large insects in the ...I also notice there are more large insects in the topics... I guess there is more energy in the system. <br /><br />This post must have taken a lot of research!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276736643046430370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-14380397818099871362015-07-08T14:39:13.431-04:002015-07-08T14:39:13.431-04:00Steven --
That's a great analogy with animals ...Steven --<br />That's a great analogy with animals from the tropics, and it rings true. John Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729625146043379286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5794535954827182754.post-13206287259992175632015-07-08T13:48:41.093-04:002015-07-08T13:48:41.093-04:00I like Floyd's fashions sense...sometimes. He ...I like Floyd's fashions sense...sometimes. He has a cool sense of style but he definitely overdoes it. Sometimes he overdoes it to the point of looking ridiculous. Its like a way of projecting confidence and status, or something. <br /><br />Its not all about suits though. I like the more casual jackets and t-shirts. Your source is correct. You can take tips but you've got to really reign it in and make it look more basic.<br /><br />Black people generally pull off flamboyance more naturally and authentically. They seem more naturally extroverted and vibrant and it would seem inauthentic and showy on most white people. Animals such as birds from the tropics are usually brighter and more colourful. Its the sun and the energy. Maybe its something to do with that. <br /><br />I think after the 60's and civil rights, black people probably felt more independent and confident to express themselves. Before that, they probably subconsciously needed to ingratiate themselves or not stand out too much. <br /><br />Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15276736643046430370noreply@blogger.com