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Tuesday, July 22, 2014

Even therapists get fooled

I had a somewhat heated exchange last Wednesday and Thursday with a commenter who said that he/she is a "friend" of Frederick Baer, a Death Row inmate I wrote about in Prison Pen Pals VII, and that I was misjudging Baer.

Take a look at Baer's advertisement, then the description of his crime and my analysis of his ad. (They are at the beginning of the post.) Then take a look at the comments below the post.

The commenter, who claims to be a therapist, said that Baer is an empathetic, honest, remorseful guy. Then the commenter recited a bunch of statistics about crystal meth to show how destructive it is, as if Baer had no choice but to slash the throat of that four-year-old girl and her mother because he was on the drug.

If the commenter is not lying about being a therapist, this is proof of just how convincing sociopaths can be (and of how naive some professionals can be). It's all too easy to imagine Baer getting a certain gleeful satisfaction from fooling the therapist by pretending to be a decent guy. In fact, Baer boasted about gaming his first prison doctor, as I described in the post.

Of course, for all I know, this anonymous commenter is Baer's sister, not his therapist. (Baer himself wouldn't have access to a computer from prison.)

In any case, read the exchange and see whom you agree with.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

I personally do not want to associate with any sociopaths, period. The man is a murderer, killing two people (a mother and her child). A therapist that I met with for a short time told me that sociopaths "don't think the way that we do," meaning that sociopaths are screwed up in how they think. I've gotten to know one sociopath very well, seeing and experiencing all of his negative qualities. He told me more than once, "I tell you what you want to hear," the truth not being in the ballpark. Sociopaths are master manipulators, using people to get what they want. Believe me, these are not people that you want to have as friends (and/or prison pen pals). Practically everything that comes out of a sociopath's mouth is a lie, so it's a waste of our time to pay attention to anything that a sociopath might try to tell us. Wise people have nothing to do with such people (they have reprobate minds, seared consciences, etc.) - they cannot be fixed. This murderer is where he belongs - in prison. I feel sorry for (have empathy for) his victims, not him.

-birdie

John Craig said...

Birdie --
Well put. there's just nothing to be gained from an association with a sociopath. As far as I'm concerned, they should all be quarantined, put on an island where they would only have each other to associate with. That would be poetic justice.

And yes, they don't think like us at all. Funny, the sociopathic woman I knew at age 25 who enlightened me as to their ways used to also say, "I"m just telling you what you want to hear," as if that excused all her lies.

Anonymous said...

I think that the poster was concerned about the drugs (meth) that the criminal used, causing his brain to become swiss cheese, thus, he couldn't help himself (in the poster's opinion) - he murdered the woman and her child due to having a screwed up brain. If the man chose to take drugs day in and day out, then he will reap the consequences of his actions (his brain will become even more messed up) - however, that does not excuse what he did, killing two people, a mother and her child. The man needs to be locked up, society protected from him. He's proven to us what he's capable of - murder.

-birdie

John Craig said...

Birdie --
You're exactly right; the crystal meth didn't just sneak up on him and put itself into his body, like a cancer: he chose to take it.

But even his addiction is a poor excuse: plenty of meth users manage not to slash the throats of a woman and her daughter, after trying to rape the woman.

Anonymous said...

I realize that the criminal's upbringing wasn't ideal - he had a an alcoholic mother (who CHOSE to abuse alcohol daily), thus, not attending to the normal needs of her child (he couldn't possibly develop normally). Her son paid the price for his mother's non-maternal ways - he turned into a sociopath. His mother destroyed another human being, in my opinion. Society has also paid a price because of her crappy parenting - two normal people are dead because of her son.

-birdie

John Craig said...

Birdie --
Exactly. One theme I've noticed among sociopaths is that a high number of them had alcoholic mothers, who effectively loved their booze more than their offspring. A strikingly high number.

Anonymous said...

first at all... no, I'm not Baer's sister. Twice, I do not want to apologize what he did but rather explaining the reason why he did what he did. And third, I do know the police reports aswell as his case and even more. Baer never played games with me. But I could tell people like you whatever I want to, even prove you wrong and you still would judge Baer as what you want to see in him, just because you once had an experience with a sociopath. Well, .. I feel pity for people like you. Do you know the movie "The Jury" or "Angry old man"? You judge Baer on the same way like this angry old man. Just saying...

John Craig said...

Anon --
Whatever your relationship with Baer, whether or not you are actually a therapist or just claiming to be one, if you understood sociopaths you'd recognize Baer as a classic one.

My judgment of him has nothing to do with my personal experiences with sociopaths, it has to do with his actions and words. There's simply no way that taking meth means you have to slit the throat of a four-year-old girl. And his dishonesty was pervasive throughout the entire process.

"I cry when a freakin' butterfly his the windshield" -- you fell for that act? Utterly pathetic.

Anonymous said...

no, I don't believe that butterfly thing. You don't have to take it worth by worth. It was just an expression of him to let others know that he is a pansy man. Weak and cowardly actually. And he does not really love kids like he said. You can see that he lied while saying this. But that all has nothing to do with what happened. Baer is no killer, even though he killed while he was on drugs.

Anonymous said...

... you know, therapists got fooled by Baer. I tell you how. While saying "I Love Kids", therapists saw he was lying because he moved his eyelids while saying this. And this "freaking butterfly -thing" was taken word by word, and so Baer cared for some laughter under the therapists. No one believed that shit. Truth is: Baer loves kids and he really weeps easily. He his doing alot of good things no one even knows about and he doesn't even talk about it. He is doing good to others, especially to little kids. But no one ever knows about it, even not those little kids. An inmate told me what Baer is doing while laughing his ass off about him and about what he is doing. Just saying.

John Craig said...

Anon --
Sorry, I don't buy that h elves kids. Actions speak louder than weds there. And a lot of sociopaths spend a lot of time trying to convince others of their nonexistent inner "goodness." Look at the way Son of Sam is now a jailhouse preacher.

In fact, even on the outside (of jail), nobody spends more time trying to convince others of their virtue than sociopaths. And it's almost a hard and fast rule in those prison pen pal advertisements that the more sociopathic an inmate is, the more he (or she) will talk about his good heart. Take a look at the other posts I wrote in that series, you'll see.

Anonymous said...

well, fact is here that Baer is doing good without letting others know that he is doing good things. Which sociopath would be doing good things without letting others knowing about that? Just wondering. Baer is even not trying to convince others that he is a good person. What he is doing for some little kids, he is doing that without even talking about and not even the kids do know that it was Baer. He is doing good things without even getting attention for that. That's something a sociopath wouldn't do. See, you don't buy that he is helping kids. You buy only stuff that is Baer letting look worse and evil. Fact is, the truth looks different.

John Craig said...

Obviously he is letting some people know about it. Otherwise how would you know? I'm sure he's hoping that the right people, i.e., those who might possible grant him clemency, will find out.

John Craig said...

PS -- Another question we haven't addressed is WHY he killed the four-year-old girl. Did he do it because he was in the throes of some kind of passion? Did he do it because he hated her for some weird reason? No, he did it because he knew she could identify him and he didn't want any witnesses. That is the most cold-blooded (and rational) of reasons, and cold-bloodedness is what distinguishes the sociopath.

Anonymous said...

I can tell you how it comes that another inmate knows about it. You know, Baer is hated this much that all other inmates always try to find his weaknesses out. They are using them against Baer. They even try to find out who is writing him, trying to destroy pen friendships and all and everything that could be only a little good for Baer. Baer lives in a hell no one is even able to imagine. An inmate "found out" what Baer is doing for the kids and that gave him the next reason to ridicule Baer.

Anonymous said...

Again: Baer was on Meth. And yes, the reason why he killed both was fear. Fact.

Anonymous said...

well, not only sociopaths do things when they get fear , they would actually never do. Even you. You only have to get involved in the right situation.

John Craig said...

Yes, fear: fear of getting caught.

John Craig said...

Okay, let's test that situation out the next time I murder a mother and her 4-year-old might identify me.

Hey, any of us could "get involved in the rich situation."

Anonymous said...

good idea...but don't forget to take Crystal Meth minimum 2 months before you get in this situation... makes you more aggressive and paranoid, you know.

John Craig said...

Is that what explains your delusions?

Bella said...

Ever hear "takes one to know one" maybe u should see a therapist

Bella said...

Who cares what he's doing, we all know what his victims are not doing and that's breathing...who cares about the good he's doing what about the good the mother or little girl could have done...for all we know that little girl could of been the one to save the world or she could of been the next princess Diana "his fantasy girl" drugs or no drugs what he did is unacceptable regardless of what he does now.. he is what he is a baby killer...quit using drugs as an excuse..I been high and drunk out of my mind before but i still knew a child when I saw one..killing the mom after trying to rape her was cowardly but to kill the little girl also now that's just down right cold...I bet if that was ur daughter or mother or sister or friend u wouldn't be so protective over him defending him making excuses for his actions.Use the time u use writting him and get treated yourself. Before u end up right there with him on death row

Bella said...

Lives in hell? He's doing more than his victims now isn't he? His hell hasn't even begun, wait till he meats his maker then he will know what hell is

Bella said...

Who the hell is scared of a 4 year old besides another 4 year old...come on lady..he is an adult well into his 30's he knew what the possibilities were the first time he took the drug now he's trying to blame the drug..the drug didn't force itself into his body he put it there, therfore he and only he is responsible not the drug

Bella said...

Yes John she too is a sociopath that's why she is with him he talked about his German girlfriend in the documentry.even mentioned her name. You would have to be a sociopath yourself to be with a man like this..good thing he's on death row with no possible chance of having his own babies.

John Craig said...

Bella --
Sorry, I thought you were addressing that other comment to me, I just deleted my reply.

I actually don't think that all of Baer's supporters are sociopaths, I think they're severely deluded women who suffer from hybristophilia, and, like most such women, were abused as children themselves, even though most of them deny it.

Bella said...

Its ok John I reread it after i posted and i too would have mistaken that comment, but yes was meant for annonymous....As a victim of physical,mental and sexual abuse from age 7 I have a deep hatred for people like this, i dont even consider them human. he was 13 yrs past being a child himself when his crimes took place so blaming the parents is just another excuse in trying to downgrade his actions to something or someone elses fault...You keep saying the drugs made him do it he didnt understand the nature of his crimes because of being influenced by these drugs...well answer me this if he didnt understand the nature of his crimes at the time he was doing it because he was under such influences how is it he understood enough to know that if he didnt kill them they could identify him, he knew enough to know what he was doing was wrong and if he got identified he would go to jail, hence the killing....DId he like sober up for 5 minutes to make these decisions

John Craig said...

Bella --
Sorry to hear of the abuse. You're of course completely right about this, and the proof is that since Baer has been in prison, his personality hasn't changed, he continues to act exactly like a sociopath. If you've seen my original pen pals post, he was sober when he talked about fooling the psychiatrist, he was sober when he manipulated all of these crazy female hybristophiliacs, he was sober when he talked about how he deserved the death penalty (but refused to withdraw his appeals).

I've long since given up arguing with the hybristos, if you take a look at the early comments on that original post about Baer, you'll see that I did so, but then I realized what I was dealing with, and it's basically talking to a brick wall. Or like telling some severely schizophrenic patient in a mental ward that he is NOT Jesus Christ, as he believes. It's simply not worth the effort.