The other day I was talking to a young man whose IQ has been tested at 140.
He said, "You know, James Bond's IQ must have been around 140. That's just about right. Anything more and it would backfire -- he'd have ended up questioning himself all the time."
I replied, "Yeah, but Bond was awfully clever."
He shrugged, "I'm clever. Really, guys with IQ's of 155 just aren't that cool, they're sorta like helpless quivering masses of neuroses. Even at 140, I may be too high. I'll sometimes wonder if I did something right, rather than just looking forward and thinking about what's next."
I thought about that, but could think of no response.
The young man added, "Yeah, if you want to be a man of action, you can't become paralyzed with self-doubt, all those extra synapses firing off."
I had to agree. "That's actually why blacks are generally cooler than whites -- don't have all those extra synapses firing off all the time, making them nervous and neurotic like whites."
The young man continued, "Now Q, he may have been a 155. At least, the older version played by Desmond Llewelyn, not that new young twerp. But would you want to be Q?"
He concluded, "Guys with 155's just aren't that cool. At 140, I'm just way cooler. And even 140 may be too much for me."
It was an interesting take, and he's probably right.
And yes, I know, James Bond's IQ, silliest discussion ever.
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24 comments:
John what is your own IQ score, if you don't mind sharing publicly?
Justin --
I've taken a fair number of tests, and the scores have varied depending on the test. But I'll give you a hint: the score I've always used as "my IQ" was from the test I was given as a kid, and which pretty much predestined me to a life as a helpless quivering mass of neuroses.
Keep in mind, though, that it's a lot easier to score higher on such a test as a child, since the results are always age-adjusted.
I had you in the 140-160 range.
I read this quote on facebook the other day: 'the problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.'. I think there is some truth to that.
Are highly intelligent people usually neurotic? Woody Allen is the classic example but I can think of a couple of counter examples too.
Steven --
IQ aside, the fact is, no one who's actually smart could possibly have made as many dumb mistakes as I have in my life.
Maybe there's a mild positive correlation. But self doubt is probably more closely associated with character, and character isn't really that closely correlated with IQ. Sociopaths span the full range of IQ's, as do people at the other end of the character range. (I realize I'm contradicting what was said in the post here.)
John, amongst the extreme fringe of high IQ it seems to be generally known that as IQ goes up (beyond a certain safe margin) so does some kind of pathology. There is a very interesting 1987 article from the journal of a high IQ society that used to be available online on their website but can only be found archived now: http://web.archive.org/web/20110721122439/http://www.prometheussociety.org/articles/Outsiders.html
I think most smart and inward looking people have some insight into the kind of poor creature some of these must be. In a way they remind me of (some) people with aspergers. Not in how they think/act but in how they feel, aliens in their own societies.
John - Regardless of how intelligent you are, even gifted people can drop the ball, be quite gauche or dumb. I've walked into a bus stop sign pole saying goodbye to a girl, so there ya go. Thankfully she was a Jehovah's Witness so it didn't matter. I've notice some intelligent honest people have doubts, as the burden of knowledge they carry can be weighty.
Luqman --
Thank you, that was interesting. And that's an interesting analogy you made about the super smart and people with Aspergers. In both cases, they feel alienated. I do think some very smart people tend to dumb themselves down to essentially "hide" in plain sight, or to blend in. I wrote about that here in January '15:
http://justnotsaid.blogspot.com/2015/01/dumbing-oneself-down.html
Now that I think about it, I may know one guy who's both supersmart and has a touch of Aspergers, and he's almost comically asocial (not antisocial, just asocial). Whenever I see him he's always extremely polite, and gracious, but he makes zero attempt to socialize with other people in his IQ range, and seems content to either be alone with his books or be alone with others, in a sense.
Shaun --
Thanks, yes, everyone makes mistakes. But I still look back sometimes and just can't believe how incredibly stupid I've been. And I say stupid things all the time, to this day. I know they're stupid the second they come out of my mouth, but I just don't have the editing function I have on this blog. And I do know plenty of people who are far slicker, far smoother. And that is a form of intelligence.
John - I will say the people that are slicker and smoother may have applied their intelligence to develop these behaviors, to manipulate and get "buy in" from people. (Think an MBA) As opposed to yourself - who although lacking a filter, is significantly more honest than those "city slickers". Were you talking to Jonathan Leaf? I think you had written about him before, and I grabbed his book - The Politically Incorrect Guide to the 60s.
Shaun --
I think some people are just more glib by nature. The young guy I was referring to in this post is far quicker and wittier than I am. I can write a more amusing blog; but he's far better on his feet. It's just a different aspect of intelligence, though it's also true that sociopathic types seem to be quick with their lies and also slick. (Ironically, I have an MBA myself.)
I haven't spoken to Jonathan Leaf recently, he's more a friend of my brother's, but yes, I did write about him in "The smartest guy I ever met" back on 7/22/09 on this blog. That book is interesting, but by no means Leaf's measure; what's most impressive about him is that you can be talking about anything, absolutely anything, and he'll have an informed, logical opinion about it. Both my brother and son have remarked on this too. (And it takes a lot to impress my son.)
I once had a friend/neighbor (deceased now), who had a genius level brother-in-law (her husband's brother) who was unemployed, living like a hermit. He actually married (a big development for him, having met his future wife at this friend's wedding), had twin boys, and his wife eventually divorced him (I knew the wife and kids for a short time through my old neighbor). His wife was somewhat off-the-wall too, having a doctorate degree in some obscure subject that I'd never heard of. It's a shame to have such a high IQ and it doesn't totally benefit you. The genius relative had a hard time keeping any jobs due to being a Mr. know-it-all. I always enjoyed listening to my friend talk about her brother-in-law, just being very matter-of-fact about him (she didn't seem embarrassed by him).
-birdie
i've always taken Richard Feynman as the model of what you'd want to be like if you were that smart and as an example of how you can be super smart and happy.
Birdie --
Smart or dumb, know-it-alls can be annoying. I also tend to be a little suspicious when someone talks about someone else as a genius. I've known as many people who've lied about their IQ's as I do people who've told the truth. And after a while it's pretty obvious, too.
John, I appreciated the comment and blog entry regarding dumbing down, I think that is great insight. In terms of motivation I think it doesnt stem simply from a desire to fit in, but also to emulate the sort of easy looseness that you identify in black people for its own sake. I think the too-high IQ people are essentially detached from their emotions, they feel strongly but dont live in the immediacy of their emotion, or are in a way afraid to. It is a bit like living with less of the abstract quality of `life` in your existence. The general atmosphere nowadays also seems to favour such a detachment, earlier societies were more immersed in their own experience (I believe).
when I was 14 I was tested and I got 145 and 155...25 years and 2000 hits of LSD, and a whole lot of crack-smoking and heavy drinking later, I was tested again (for the Mensa entrance) and I got 145 and 150...(fortunately I don't do those bad things now, no, no)
these numbers are not genius numbers, they are just about high enough to endow a good troublemaker...at the end of the day, I am happy being OK smart and WITH A BAD ATTITUDE and I do think I would turn down gaining another 15 points if it meant losing the bad attitude in exchange...most high IQ people are weak and cowardly and conformist, being smart makes it easy for them to succeed wherever they start at, and so they lack the necessary high-stress character-building components in their personal development regimen...
- Fake Baba
Luqman --
Thank you. I think the difference you point out is not just true of the super smart vs. the average, but of whites vs. blacks. As I said in that post about the biggest difference between the races --
http://justnotsaid.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-biggest-difference-between-races.html
-- blacks tend to be far more genuine in what they say, as opposed to whites, who will usually just say whatever it is they think they're supposed to say at that moment. I'm not sure exactly what explains that, it goes a little deeper than just the difference in inhibitions (what that post was about). Blacks live in the moment much more than whites, and will express both affection and aggression with fewer inhibitions. Whites are more "socialized," meaning they put more effort into trying to fit in and playing their assigned role. And I'm not even sure that the super smart (who try to dumb themselves down) are all that different from those of average intelligence in that regard. it's just that one of the ways they try to fit in is by acting less intelligent than they are, for fear of "offending" others with their superior intelligence.
Fake Baba --
According to some sources, 150 is the cutoff for "genius," so at least your 155 score would indicate you made the cut.
"A whole lot of crack smoking" -- ??!! You must have been addicted then, crack is supposed to be highly addictive. Was it tough getting off of the stuff? As far as the LSD, on the other hand, maybe that's what led you here. All that hallucination has given you a renewed appreciation for the truth. (I do try to make this blog about the truth -- you know, "keeping' it real.")
Amazing that your IQ survived that onslaught though. I guess all those "This is your brain, this is your brain on drugs" PSA's were misleading. Or, at least, they could have added, "And this is your brain after drugs," and put the original picture back in.
And, you just expressed the typical macho man's disdain for the egghead. Fair enough. I'd say most people, not just most eggheads, are cowardly. (And I definitely include myself in that number.) I think most military guys and most cops tend to look down on the civilian population for that reason. Think of it this way: there are two guys. One is 6 feet tall, weighs 190, covered with muscle, has an IQ of 100, and was an Army Ranger who's been deployed. The other is 6 feet tall, weighs 155, and has an IQ of 120. Which one feels insecure/inadequate in the presence of the other?
I have not found anything very addictive, truthfully...I think it's genetic...it is easy to stop, just pick a day...(I avoided catching any opiate habits, because, I was taught as a young person "don't get high four days in a row, and, you will never get addicted" and as far as I can tell THAT METHOD REALLY REALLY WORKS...seriously, why doesn't everybody know it?)
there is only one thing that I have sworn never ever ever to do again...cigarettes...it has been since I think around 2005 or so, I have complied perfectly, IT WAS A SERIOUS PROMISE to myself
- Fake Baba
Fake Baba --
Wow, surprising….So those PSA announcements were wrong on that score, too. Being a cowardly egghead, I've never tried either opiates or the cocaine-based drugs.
Yes, cigarettes are disgusting.
no,no, Mister Craig, you are not cowardly, or you would not be running a WRONGTHINK BLOG like this
seriously, I am not even being polite, IT'S A PLAIN FACT.
- Fake Baba
Fake Baba --
Thanks, but different kinds of nerve. I would never smoke crack.
Regarding the genius brother-in-law, I believe what my friend told me about him. She herself was very educated, as was her husband. The brother-in-law married one of her best friends. It was funny to hear how she tried to talk her friend out of marrying the brother-in-law, but her friend went on and married him. This friend was not someone who was in the habit of lying. Evert family (I guess) has their quirky relatives.
-birdie
"...But self doubt is probably more closely associated with character, and character isn't really that closely correlated with IQ. Sociopaths span the full range of IQ's, as do people at the other end of the character range."
This.
As an employer, or a friend, for that matter, I'd choose a person of solid character and average IQ over a smart but weak one (read, shifty, untrustworthy, lacking in integrity, etc.)
Ambivalent Misanthrope --
I think we all would, if we were armed with that knowledge ahead of time. The problem is, character is really only discernible over time, and nobody makes a better first impression than a sociopath.
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