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Monday, September 5, 2016

Aspies deserve sympathy (but aren't good at getting it)

The original post I wrote on Aspergers Syndrome in 2011 seems to have been linked on some site for people with Aspergers, as an example of how insensitive and insulting some "neurotypicals" can be. The post now has 509 comments (a fair number of which are my replies).

The first couple hundred comments included many telling me what a horrible person I am, but the tone of most of the more recent comments has been more balanced. An anonymous commenter had something perceptive to say this morning:

What is interestingly absent is sympathy for those with autism. Almost every extension of sympathy are to people who live with or know said person with autism, which is actually kind of autistic in a way ironically. If a man with a heart attack were to fall down and block a door to a bathroom, who is suffering more: the person who tripped over the person on the way in or the person with the heart attack himself?

People with autism/aspergers really really suffer from their condition. Heightened levels of neuropathic headaches, bullying in their youth, sensory overload, and many more but people who have posted comments don't see it that way, they see an only autism and not a person WITH AUTISM. Everyone suffers in the end and many would gladly be cured (minus the one's in the USA for some reason, everyone here in Asia with the condition seems to want to be fixed.) We do not see people with autism and people without vs autism the disorder as it should be, rather I keep seeing people putting it as autistic people vs non autistic which shouldn't be that way.

When I read stories about parents of low functioning children, I shake my head when all the supposedly "empathetic and sympathetic" comments always go out only to the parents or relatives, nobody stops to feel bad for the person in the article who self harms and is in constant painful hell. Some even seem to be glad about it saying "serves them right for being autistic!" without realizing the inconsistency in that statement.

Annoying as aspies or autistic are, you have to admit they aren't happy and they may suffer even more from their disease than their parents or peers in some cases. So ironic, despite having fully functioning empathy, many NTs laugh when they hear misfortune happening to autistic people nor do they realize they could have been born with the condition if they were unlucky enough. So they say "they aren't people! They are things! Retards!", well the hatred displayed seems to not look like a negative hatred directed at an inanimate object, it looks very personal and like positive hatred.

But this also cuts the other way too, many higher functioning aspies can choose to realize their differences exist and attempt to fight what they can. They have an obligation to also accommodate others. There is this quote from a video game "Is it better to be born good or to overcome one's evil nature through great effort?" well autism doesn't really equal evil so much as weird nor can a person be cured through willpower alone, but the point rests. It seems to be more of a western thing for aspies to romp around and be proud of it, many other patients I've heard about in Hong Kong for instance would prefer to be normal.


I replied:

Anon --
You make a good point. And I'm obviously as guilty in that regard as anyone.

It does go against human nature, though, to be sympathetic to a set of traits which, individually, don't inspire sympathy. What if someone told you you had to be more sympathetic to someone who was extremely hypocritical? Most people's reaction would be, screw that. Or if you were told you had to be more sympathetic to someone who had no sense of humor and was painfully awkward? Or if you were told you had to show more sympathy to someone who would frequently lose his temper and scream at you? These are traits it's hard to work up sympathy for.

The average person will be inclined to feel sorry for someone who is severely autistic, because there is an obvious organic defect there which is apparent right from the start. Aspergers is more subtle, and is often not apparent at first. So people only gradually become aware of its presence, trait by trait, and by the time the realization of its presence sinks in, they've been annoyed and even infuriated by that person so many times that the window for sympathy has usually been closed.

That said, though, I agree with your larger point: people with organic conditions cannot help themselves, and deserve sympathy for a condition they have no control over.

It occurs to me that one good way for Aspies to gain sympathy would be to own up to their condition early on when they meet new people, which would allow others to be aware of their handicap, and thus make allowances for those Aspies in a way they would not for a neurotypical who exhibited the same traits. 

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

I would like to reiterate the last point I made with some more detail. It is a western thing for Aspergians to be loud and proud, defiant against any treatment or potential cure someday, unwilling to admit they have a disorder, and more.

In China the ratio of those who want to be normal to those who dont is closer to 95/05, they recognize the organic defect they themselves have. Hence I see more occasions of them at least trying to fight against their own disorder's symptoms, I commend the one's who do. I can understand and see their suffering and wish them all the best.


It really is bizarre when someone can see a severely autistic person and say "this is who they are, this is what makes them special". Unthinkable in the rest of the world! Someone who can't stop banging their head against the wall until bloody isn't in need of help? Pah!

And to reiterate another point! It's a damn shame it became aspie/autistic vs normal in the USA, I suspect social justice warriors set that up. Researchers and likely people in other countries all realize it is everyone vs autism the disease. Say if in another country some young autistic children decided to do an icebucket challenge to identify asperger and autistic genes, it wouldn't get past the first day without a storm of hate mail.

Anonymous said...

I do feel badly for those people who have Asperger's Syndrome, realizing that is has to be difficult for anyone who is afflicted with the disorder. One of my sister's is married to a man whom I'm pretty certain has the condition. They've been married 41 years and it hasn't been easy for my sister.

- birdie

John Craig said...

Birdie --
I can imagine.

Anonymous said...

Aspergers is now classified as the same as mild autism in the USA now. This may not be the case, brain scans show classic autism has fewer connections in the brain and less activity while in aspergers there is more activity in some areas and less in others. This makes me quite cross that they are lumping it all together. Although this may be one step back before going two steps forward.
I imagine severe autism is a more pressing issue but they cannot ignore mild cases. The maddening thing though is that aspergers and autism may not two disorders, they all may be caused by different things like blindness but share the same symptoms. Getting rid of aspergers as a separate classification is admitting they do not know shit right now, people with "aspergers" or "autism" may have numerous conditions, some due to environmental factors, some genes, some brain damage, etc. that lead to common behavior. Same with ADD and more.
This is all a side effect of how complex humans are compared to other creature, it is likely the vast majority of people carry predisposition to behavioral issues, but it is worse enough in others. Natural selection is about reproductive success, it is not about how well we are off. There is a sea snake that drinks a small layer of rain on the ocean, but is perpetually thirsty, this is an uncomfortable but reproductively successful existence. Humans never evolved to always be in a so called "healthy" state of mind.
But it doesn't have to be that way, medicine needs to advance further. If the world is still around in the future, I envy them who do not have to deal with all this mess.

Anonymous said...

Why do you think some autistic people want to be cured and know what's wrong with themselves (and hence want to change) while others refuse and stupidly think they are fine?

John Craig said...

Anon --
Don't know if your question is directed at me or at the previous commenter, but I really have no good answer for you. As far as the latter group of people, I'd imagine it has something to do with all of the autism support groups who constantly tell them they're "differently abled" etc. etc. But I don't know.

gambino dellacroce said...

"The average person will be inclined to feel sorry for someone who is severely autistic, because there is an obvious organic defect there which is apparent right from the start. Aspergers is more subtle, and is often not apparent at first. So people only gradually become aware of its presence, trait by trait, and by the time the realization of its presence sinks in, they've been annoyed and even infuriated by that person so many times that the window for sympathy has usually been closed."

That's a very good point. Often they are highly intelligent and depending on the nature of your interaction with them, may be able to pass as neurotypical (e.g. during a confined work setting). However, as the annoying incidents pile up and are of the same nature again and again, you can't help but think they could apply some of that intelligence to remedy their own annoying behaviour. It becomes an interesting conundrum, over time the more aware ones become aware (on reflection) of their behaviour, however, they can't in the moment address it, not without tremendous effort and self monitoring or someone monitoring over them constantly.

What compounds it for me is that no doubt they become aware they are annoying and feel the distance people give them and the personal self esteem issues it creates. Some will, like liberals/feminists wear the difference as a badge of pride and engage in mental gymnastics to make themselves right/special and the rest of the world wrong. With my now former boss, I began (very tactfully) pointing out communication issues that were preventing me from doing projects; the issues were ultimately reflective of Asperger's symptoms but framed in a way so that he wouldn't think that was what I was directly pointing out. He flipped out, had an Asperger's meltdown, ran his hands through his hair, avoided eye contact, deflected, changed the subject, engaged in ad hominem and then asked me to leave the room because he was getting upset.

I can understand facing one's flaws is difficult and have no doubt living with it for a lifetime is draining, but the responses were quite telling. Interestingly, before I left he gave me work based feedback which was 85% a list of all his issues projected on to me. Right.

OTOH, a guy I did post-grad studies with, who had a very strong case of Asperger's (but wasn't aware of it), would thank me for pointing out when he was being annoying by identifying the specific behaviour. He might not naturally 'get it', but he has built up a repertoire of 'acceptable' and 'unacceptable' behaviours and responses.

Anonymous said...

There is an autism epidemic. It's not vaccines but there has been a legitimate explosion. Research has to really be done before it spreads too much. These autism support groups are potentially dooming the human species to extinction. A child who can't talk, walk, and bangs his head is not differently abled.

John Craig said...

Gambino Dellacroce --

That's a great description of someone with Aspergers.

"Interestingly, before I left he gave me work based feedback which was 85% a list of all his issues projected on to me. Right."

The amount of projection they use is amazing. I've found the same thing, that they ascribe all of their own traits to me, often in a very bitter fashion. I've been told, "You're so out of it you don't even realize you're out of it" by an Aspie. Now, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms that can be aimed at me, but that's not one of them, and it was a perfect description of the Aspie. But it was the one she chose to attack with.

You also captured their response to constructive criticism perfectly: the flipping out, the meltdown, the changing of the subject, the ad hominem attacks.

I had a huge number of Aspies attacking me after the original Aspergers post I put up in August of 2011. They basically all told me what a horrible person I was for pointing those behaviors out and how wrongheaded I was to boot. But by their emotional, defensive reactions, and their ad hominem attacks, they were actually all proving my point. (That post has more comments than any other post I've ever written.) But more recently, there have been a number of far more reasonable commenters, many of whom identify themselves as Aspies, and they are much more like the fellow you did your post-grad studies with.

John Craig said...

Anon --
I wonder about that. I know that the number of cases that have been identified has exploded, but that may be partly a matter of its having gone undiagnosed before recently. And I've heard of some super-competitive parents who will actually TRY to get their child diagnosed that way so as to get extra time on tests, etc, which the law allows for in some places.

Also, the cases of extreme autism, which involve head banging and so on, may have just been classified as "mentally retarded" back in the old days and lumped in with others with different issues.

Anonymous said...

https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/shift-diagnosis-only-partly-explains-rise-autism-prevalence

This shows that is may not just be better diagnosis. Yes, it explains the majority of the higher rates but environmental factors do play a role, factors which didn't exist in the past. Now it may be 1 in 38 when it was 1 in 65 a few years back. The pride groups want you to believe it is 100% genetic, but more evidence goes against that. Schizophrenia which has many parallels with autism has remained steady for decades. Nobody denies it has both genetic and enviromental causes. If more people with autism used to be diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, why hasn't the latter's rate gone down?

It is as much a crisis as elderly dementia in the coming decades (due to very low birth rates in western developed nations and longer lifespans) if not more! The difference is that nobody is ignoring the danger alzheimer poses to our economy or the fact schizophrenics are clearly not well. We used to romanticize schizophrenia a bit in the past, that is true, but nowhere near to the point of hindering autism research like modern groups!

I don't think its vaccines, but what about all the goddamn paracetamols, birth control pills, artificially flavored foods, nuclear testing, chemicals, and more going on? We can be at least a little agnostic about it.

John Craig said...

Anon --
Ha, I was about to say that I don't understand the causes of autism and was actually going to use the word "agnostic" until I got to your lat sentence. You're right, we don't know. It is hard to separate out the environmental factors from the genetic ones, especially when it comes to complicated issues and diagnoses.

It could well be the traces of chemicals in our water supply and a host of the modern ills. The presence of certain plastics in our water supply has been linked to lower testosterone levels among men than was the case 100 years ago. I sometimes wonder if there's not a casual relationship here between that and what seems to be higher rates of homosexuality these days. That's another complicated issue to figure out, especially since a lot of that is that homosexuals are mostly no longer in the closet the way they were 100 years ago. But sexuality is correlated with hormones, and who's to say the environment doesn't play a role there?

And yes, the same applies to autism. A lot of people said it was vaccines for a long time, but that theory seems to have been debunked. (I don't follow the issue closely enough to have a strong opinion on it.) But yeah, it could be some environmental factor we're unaware of.

I hadn't thought of Alzheimer's as a public health crisis before, but yes, you make a god point. our longer life spans means that a high percentage of the population will be afflicted with it, at a cost to society.

So, let's agree to be agnostic.

BTW, if you intend to write in more than once, it would be helpful if you used a name (fake, if you like, as most people do) just so I know I'm talking with the same person.

Anthonyhehasnoname said...

Okay this is my name, anthonyhehasnoname.

Homosexuality has correlations with the amygdala and white/grey matter in the brain, it is currently not a threat to our planet so we can ignore it for now.
Alzheimers/dementia scares me right now, it is as tough a nut to crack as autism, it is a more immediate threat (though autism will become the greater one if it is actually going up for real). When 1/3rd of the worlds population is over 65 and many are in diapers, what the hell will happen then? Who will take care of them? Who will work the jobs they did? It's a shame we have too many terrorists, wars, and tumblrinas getting in the way.

John Craig said...

Anthonyhehasnoname --
Okay, thank you. Yes, Alzheimers and dementia (which I've always had a hard time differentiating from each other and from regular old senility, although I know there's a medical difference) are going to be a growing problem.

gambino dellacroce said...

John Craig

September 17, 2016 at 7:59 AM

There is a simultaneous denial of the existence of the problem as well as defending against perceived attackers who identify it. So either way, they are never wrong, a typical Asperger's trait. It's classic 1984 double think. Their issue doesn't exist, but it is your issue.

In addition to projection, I also got a strange form of attack. For example, he was notorious for focusing on minute details when people were trying to get a general understanding of the intended strategic direction of a project, no matter how many times he was asked. He would then later claim you didn't bother to consult him to clear up any misunderstandings, thus absolving him of his miscommunication faults.

John Craig said...

Gambino Dellacroce --
1984 double think, good analogy.

I haven't run across the specific behavior you describe in your second paragraph, but that does sound peculiarly Aspie-ish.

Anthonyhehasnoname said...

I just read about a neanderthal hybrid theory for autism....HOW THE HELL DID THAT EVEN GET PUBLISHED?

Rates of autism among pureblooded african immigrants to other countries sometimes show increased rates of Autism!!! Zero neanderthal admixture but still autism!

Why do they keep wasting time with studies like these? Wouldn't they best be doing some actual research instead of coming up with weird borderline 19th century psychological crap?

There is another theory about how autism may result from atavistic genes, okay, but unless they planned on using this theory to suggest where they can identify the genes for potential treatment in the future, this is even more wasting of time.

The most ridiculous one I have seen recebtky is one where autism is caused by excessive levels of pre-natal estrogen! Have you ever seen a female autistic/aspie? They are incredibly girly! They love books like twilight and following fashion trends!

I sometimes think some scientists are stuck mentally masturbating to weird odd theories bordering on Freudian era viewpoints instead of doing their job.

John Craig said...

Anthony --
I agree, most of the "scientific" studies coming out these days seem like a big waste of time. And worse than that, many of them have an overlay of political correctness to them, with the goal to root out "bias" or "racism," however indirectly.

That said, nobody really knows what causes autism, so we should expect to see a lot of odd theories tested out, most of which will be far afield.

Anonymous said...

One thing that makes me lose sympathy for aspies (coming from an aspie himself) is when they say they are proud and happy to have it, and worse, they keep giving birth to autistic children. Some even marry other autistic people and have children! For gods sake, they should adopt instead of passing it on!!!

John Craig said...

Anon --
Has it been proven that it's genetic in origin? I thought that was all supposed to still be a big mystery. (I have noticed that it seems to run in families myself.)

Anonymous said...

Removing about 10-20% of cases where it is caused by a chromosomal error or damage (a girl I read about began displaying symptoms due to brain inflammation after she turned 5). The rest is a combination of genetic and enviroment. 50% of cases, mostly severe, can be traced to direct de novo mutations in one of 200 genes they found, the rest... probably a mix of genetic and enviroment. If an identical twin is autistic, 70-90% of the time the other will be, and if not then the other twin displays anxiety, depression, learning disorders, and more. The Autism pride groups want to claim it is 100% genetic, but it's not. The epigenetic aspect is still being researched, gene expression being the main culprit for several cases. About 50% of cases are from de novo mutation, but the chances of passing it on can be as high as 80% once it happens. Women often are protected against the symptoms as they are from more genetic diseases than men, so they unknowingly may keep spreading it. Also take into account female autistics have a habit of getting pregnant and in relations more often than males because their behaviour is seen as cute and quirky instead of the shallowness they really are (yes I am a bit of a bigot towards people like me). I do think it has gone up, it's not better diagnosis, IT IS AN EPIDEMIC. Companies of artifical flavorings, drugs, and pollution like to claim there is no correlation between autism and whatever they do, which is true as they do not directly cause autism, but they likely trigger it whenever a normal variant of a gene is displayed that reacts to the enviromental factor. These normal variants may have existed since forever but only get triggered now.
I fear for the world, every autism pride parade is a blow to humanity, someday every family we have autistic children over and over.

Anthonyhehasnoname said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX4UQWI6kFk

Take a look at this video.
Such a shame, guy seems so bright. Some autistic people can be halfwitted like you said John, some though just wanna be free. I feel for this dude.

John Craig said...

Anthony --
Yes, he writes well. But he has full blown autism, not just Aspergers, which is what i've been taking about on this blog.

Also, I don't think I ever used the word "half-witted." They just have annoying personality quirks.

Anthonyhehasnoname said...

Oh my mistake,
Annoying personality quirks though do come from not thinking enough before acting.
The term Aspergers I hear was removed from the American psychiatry manual since they say it's just a milder form of autism, no separate name needed.
(And Hans Asperger was a nazi sympathizer too)

This video sent a surge of horror through me, it made me realize a few severely autistic people are possibly consciously aware of what's going on every second! Yikes! It would be comforting to think that every single one of them would be too retarded to be miserable, or very angry inside like the guy in the video. It's like "I have no mouth and I must scream".

Mother nature is a huge bitch.

John Craig said...

Anthony --
Hans Asperger was a Nazi sympathizer?? No wonder his diagnosis has been removed from the DSM.

Hitler believed in gravity; we should stop recognizing it as a legitimate concept.

Anthonyhehasnoname said...

Is Asperger Syndrome anything but mild autism? The DSM reclassified it as being level 1 autism, level 3 being the most severe. No need for it's own unique term. The other reason they removed it was that there are multiple causes and types of autism and no evidence asperger syndrome comprised a truly specific type, not enough genes in common.

Hans Asperger wasn't a saint, he had some of his patients "sent for relocation" even after action T4 was stopped. The other guy, Leo Kanner, who is often demonized and discovered autism first, isn't as bad as they keep saying.

Maybe the other reason to remove Asperger's name is he wasn't truly the first to discover it. Plus "Kanner" sounds better to me, sounds easier to say, more English sounding, a real doctor's name. Asperger sounds like a rural Austrian village.

John Craig said...

Anthony --
My understanding is, it's just mild autism. What the organic difference is between it and more severe autism, I have no idea.

Whether or not someone was a saint ought to have little bearing on whether he is credited as the discoverer of a syndrome. Whether or not he was first to discover it ought to. But history is replete with people getting or not getting credit for being first, undeservedly. Alfred Russel Wallace is said to have been the first to postulate a comprehensive theory of natural selection, but no one ever talks about "Wallacian evolution."

Anthonyhehasnoname said...

I am surprised Asperger didn't do any further research, they just disposed of the patients and pickled their brains, they left it as that. Then again, the Nazis had a extremist view of genetics where they believed just killing off undesirables ended all traces without regard for environmental factors, epigenetics, or mutations.

Lemme share another interesting fact on the flipside. The Soviets, they had the opposite extremist view of the Nazis, they rejected traditional evolution, natural selection, and Darwinian genetics. They believed everything was nurture.

If your children had deformities, it was because you were lazy or didn't live right. If someone was unintelligent, they obviously chose to be that way early in life and didn't do enough studying. Plant offspring could be made better by simply giving more light and treatment etc. It is partially responsible for all the famines they had.

Anthonyhehasnoname said...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

This is what the soviets believed for some time. A sort of stupid opposite of Nazi science.

John Craig said...

Anthony --
Yeah, I'm familiar with Lysenkoism. What the liberals believe today isn't all that far removed from it: that most human differences are caused by the environment, and that genetics have little to do with, say, differences in intelligence.

Anthonyhehasnoname said...

The truth is somewhere inbetween the Nazis and Soviet, both environmental factors like chemicals and inherited genetics.

Unknown said...

Why is there a mass hysteria over autism now but nothing said over schizophrenia? When we heard of the newton shooting there was no end to it but the Oklahoma City bombing was done by a schizophrenic Timothy McVeigh.


There are numerous forums where spouses of autistics rant and express rage, but the equivalent for schizophrenics, many feel sorry even after suffering decades of physical abuse and have been reduced to changing their diapers. Living with a schizophrenic can be hell too:
http://www.salon.com/2011/01/12/schizophrenic_mother_tucson_reaction_open2011/

There are overlapping symptoms such as decreased empathy, rages, repetitive behaviours, obsessions etc but they are mutually exclusive conditions in some way, autistic brains have overplasticity leading to constant overactivity and exhaustion but schizophrenics have too little leading to dementia and old age like behaviours.

A schizophrenic is not just a guy who hallucinates once a day, it actually affects their regular behaviour strongly. I don't get why they see them differently, I actually know of an internet troll who says how he hates autistic people calling them subhuman worthless shits, things that should all die and be killed but in another instance expressed sympathy for schizophrenics even if they do the exact same shit and have similar symptoms!

What do you think?

George Pingas said...

Did you get my reply to this post?

It didn't seem like it went through on my phone so I made multiple dunno.

Does it happen?

George Pingas said...

Anyway I will try again, just delete the rest in case.

So why is their a media frenzy of autism but not with schizophrenics? When the newton shooting happened there was no end to it, but nothing got said when the oklahoma bombing happened about Timothy McVeigh who was schizophrenic. There are numerous similarities between them such as lack of empathy or social skills, rages, obsessions, repetitive behaviour and more, but there are mutually exclusive features such as overplasticity in the autistic brain but underplasticity in the schizophrenic.

There are numerous groups and forums filled with spouses of autistics expressing rage, hate, and vindictiveness while the ones for schizophrenics even after decades of physical abuse and being reduced to changing diapers they still say they feel sorry for them. Living with a schizophrenic can be hell: http://www.salon.com/2011/01/12/schizophrenic_mother_tucson_reaction_open2011/

I even read a post by a guy expressing his hatred of autistics, calling them a scourge on society, expressing how they should be dragged and shot calling them worthless soulless beasts yet in another post says he feels sorry for schizophrenics. A schizophrenic isn't some guy who hallucinates voices, it affects their entire behaviour causing delusions, long rants about people out to get them, and action controlling and abusive.

If you made a post about it, you wouldn't get a bunch of smug armchair experts talking about how much they are stupid annoying worthless beings.

So what's the deal? Everyone goes on about autism and violence but no one says a thing even if a schizophrenic can sometimes be more horrible to be around!

Any thoughts?

John Craig said...

Unknown --
I don't think there's quite "mass hysteria" over autism these days. A number of the recent mass shooters have been thought to be somewhere along the autistic spectrum, but if anything that's been hushed up. Also, where did you get that Timothy McVeigh was schizophrenic? I just read the entire Wiki bio of him, and there's no mention of schizophrenia. The only recent schizophrenic mass killers I've heard of are Jared Loughner (the Gabby Giffords shooter) and James Holmes (the Aurora shooter).

No question, living with someone who has schizophrenia would be tough.

Also, schizophrenics don't do "the exact same shit" as autistics. In fact there's not even that much overlap from what I can see.

John Craig said...

George Pingas --
If that was you posting as "Unknown" earlier today, then I did get it. Comments don't go up automatically, this is one of those blogs where comments have to be "approved" by the blog's author before they're posted. I'll pretty much approve anything as long as it has to do with the post.

George Pingas said...

So why is there all this shit on autism but not schizophrenia?

George Pingas said...

Also sorry to ask but could you reply to the details in my post if you have time? Answering this would mean a lot. I have a schizophrenic cousin and it's 1000x worse being around him for everyone than any aspie I've met. Look at the article I linked for some idea Where is the attention given to us? God!

John Craig said...

George PIngas --
As far as all the "shit" on autism, I write about it because I've had some personal experience dealing with it, and I've had some observations on itI haven't seen elsewhere. I've had exactly zero experience with schizophrenics, so don't write about them. I can't speak for why other people do or don't pay them attention. As far as how difficult they are to be around, I don't doubt you, a schizophrenic off his meds is basically bat shit crazy, so, yeah. What I write about on this blog is mostly sociopaths, since that's what I've had the most experience with, and what so many famous people are. You'll have to go elsewhere to find out more about schizophrenics.

George Pingas said...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/brain-tissue-study-deepens-autism-schizophrenia-link/

There is some link, it may be that autism is a type of schizophrenia that strikes at 2-3 while regular schizophrenia strikes during adolescence. I wonder what the hell is going on. I saw the post above about environmental factors and increasing rates. I suspect all these disorders are maybe increasing in severity, maybe not in incidents. They found autism and schizophrenia both cause hyperplasticity but the former leads to too much brain mass while too little in the latter due to the age when they strike. A drug is being developed to prune an autistic brain but a drug may not be possible for a long time to add extra mass for schizophrenia. God....The world looks like it's going to hell.

John Craig said...

George PIngas --
That's interesting, I'd never heard there was a link between autism and schizophrenia before.....That would be great if they could find a drug to "cure" autism, I hadn't heard that before either.

George Pingas said...

Btw, have you thought about just considering autistics insane? Which is kinda true. People feel sympathy for bipolar schizophrenics and drug addicts because everyone knows they are kooky in the head. That genetic link I posted makes me believe that it is the case. It's quite logical. Autism belongs with the other mental disorders, not sociopathy or narcissism. They just are nuts, no need to make it so complex. Why hasn't anyone thought of it this way before?

John Craig said...

George --
I wouldn't use that word, it's too vague and all-encompassing, and they're not quite divorced from reality in the way that schizophrenics or psychotics are. With them, it's more like they just miss a lot of cues. So, in a way, if you wanted to, you could describe that as a form of insanity, being divorced from the very real world of visual cues and body language and so on, but it really stops short of outright insanity. I agree that it's completely different from narcissism and sociopaths, both of which are basically defects of character.

George Pingas said...

With the severe cases it does go into outright insanity with self harm, stimming, drooling, and epileptic seizures, a brain problem like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's . I still I am surprised a few people still are too pc to say THAT at least is a full blown mental illness, not a mere "different way of being". They may not hear voices in the head but it's clearly a type of craziness. And that would mean milder cases are only just less insane relatively speaking.



Anonymous said...

Can't log into my usual account:
Btw I just want to let you know meds for schizophrenia only cure the positive symptoms such as psychosis, hallucinations and delusions. The negative symptoms such as indifference, lack of empathy, cognitive and planning deficits, flat voice, intense gazing during conversations and more do not disappear. I got that impression and just wanna clear it up in case.

Anonymous said...

Autistic guy here:
The worst part for an aspie (or more fittingly someone with fullblown autism) are the memories if they have any before turning 3. Autism in i reckon 50% of cases doesn't set in till 2-3.
Some of the more severely autistic people who are intelligent enough to communicate with a keyboard have expressed how they wish they could regain their speech and go back to being normal when they were toddlers. I remember there was a girl who would hit her head on the wall and shake, and she said using a computer that she feels she can't stop herself even though she keeps on trying, like her body is possessed. So yeah, it is easier to feel sympathy for someone with more severe autism since it is more obvious.

There is a huge split in the autistic community between higher functioning members who are supremacists and lower functioning members who have said over and over how they would rather be normal. To which the higher functioning members usually say "oh you feel sad since society doesn't accept you!" to which the severely autistic people often say "bullshit". I think that there would be much more sympathy for a person no matter how severe if they hated their autism. I dare say hating one's autism is needed for truly loving oneself.

John Craig said...

Anonymous Autistic guy --
You're absolutely right. It's hard to work up sympathy for the self-righteous.