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Sunday, December 11, 2016

Aspie disapproval

The people I've known who have Aspergers Syndrome would frequently castigate others for their behavior. They were forever telling others that they were acting inappropriately, as if they themselves had any sense of what was appropriate or not.

With Aspies, it's as if they think the sheer vehemence of their disapproval will somehow demonstrate how sane and socially clued in they are. The equation goes something like this: the more offended they act, the more they think they are proving how refined their sensibilities must be.

It's pathetic, but that seems to be how they think.

It's not dissimilar to liberals who claim to be offended all the time. They seem to think that by saying, "I find that really offensive," they are demonstrating moral superiority.

Sometimes I feel like responding, to both sets of people, "Ah, what an exquisitely sensitive and enlightened person you must be -- especially compared to a moral reprobate like me!"

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

More replies in the asperger post recently?

What bothers me more is the identity politics of it. You don't see people with other disorders defending their right to not be treated. Instead with ADHD (interestingly over 60% of aspies will develop ADHD in child or adulthood, do you see any traits of that in them?) we have to defend our right to take our medication and therapy since people deny it exists.

http://www.asianscientist.com/2016/11/in-the-lab/epigenome-profiling-autism-gis/

You have a little over a decade before the drugs come in. You probably will see a gigantic backlash at them refusing to take them and will write posts. Protests maybe will happen.

After two decades you may not need to write any more posts about younger ones, children can't consent to not taking them, you will instead be writing about older aspies who are "stragglers", hiding in society refusing to swallow the pill. If only they can make it a law like with other disorders that intervention would have to take place. On the other hand I image waves of other aspies lining up to take it desperately.

-Josh

Anonymous said...

Lol, you could say that, but you'd sound like a pompous derriere. How about a hearty: "F-ck you, you twat faced b-tch"?

Steven said...

I know a young guy with aspergers. My first impression was what a nice kid. He's full of love towards his friends and is equally over the top in how scathing he is against the sportsmen/teams/politicians he doesn't like. He does seem like he's trying to fit in in a way.

Reminds me of the Leonard Cohen lines: 'I'm good at love, I'm good at hate, its inbetween I freeze' (been working out but its too late, its been too late for years).

Anonymous said...

The "I'm offended" pose is immaturity and hyper-femininity. Most kids nowadays haven't gone through a lot of the life-forming experiences past generations have. They are eternal children, babied until long past childhood.

At some point someone will say to their "I'm offended" exclamations, "big fucking deal." And maybe belt them in the mouth.

They'll learn.

Puzzled

John Craig said...

Josh --
True enough. I actually do think people should have the right not to be treated if that's what they want, but the idea that Aspies are "differently abled" or have some sort of advantage is ridiculous. It's a big hindrance, to them and to the people around them, and should never be painted as anything else.

Honestly, I've never noticed a correlation between Aspergers and ADHD. Not denying it exist, just saying I've never noticed it myself.

John Craig said...

Anon --
Since I've been accused of being a pompous derriere anyway, it probably wouldn't make any difference. Your suggestion sounds as if it would result in a fight.

John Craig said...

Steven --
Yes, I've seen the trying-to-fit-in thing a fair amount. Often it consists of faking laughter when they see others are laughing, or of trying too hard to appear cynical and knowledgeable. Or, trying to tell everyone else how to behave, as if they have any clue themselves.

John Craig said...

Puzzled --
I'm not going to be the one to belt them in the mouth (they might hit me back), but that is what they need.

Not sure that most of them will ever learn, though. Most of the hard core Lefties I've known seem pretty much incapable of that. It would require having to drop their pretense of moral superiority, and admit their entire thought system is based on lies, which would be pretty much impossible for them.

Anonymous said...

Are you frightened the "differently abled" groups will get in the way of researching treatments?
Every dollar they suck away or waste may be adding on more days till scientific breakthrough.
But why do you believe have they been so successful? Every other movement for mental disorders in the past have been treated as a joke and died quickly. I think it is convenience, identity politics are in full swing and this disorder was discovered relatively recently. Your thoughts? You do notice how odd the legitimacy they are given is when they haven't or don't give it to other disorders, no? Is it a conspiracy?

-Josh

Anonymous said...

Also, the phrase "different not disabled" pisses me off. It is a clear denial of the existence of disability in the world. It shouldn't be confused with "different not less" used by AutismSpeaks which has a completely different meaning.

-Josh

John Craig said...

Josh --
Actually, I hadn't even been aware of the whole Aspie liberation movement until people -- mostly you, I think -- started to mention it on this blog. No, I can't imagine they will get in the way of treatment, though. Scientists should be able to operate independently of politics, at least until it comes time to actually implement their discoveries. I have no idea why, or if they're successful. I would guess thats a lot of the online Aspie support groups just sort of morphed into a sort of political movement which started to insist that they were just as good. The cheerleading of the "We're differently abled!" type took on a more political hue, and took on the language of the various other identity movements which are currently fashionable.

True enough, you never hear of schizophrenia liberation, or sociopath liberation (except on this blog, as a joke):

http://justnotsaid.blogspot.com/2013/09/sociopath-liberation.html

gaikokumaniakku said...

The Aspies are behaving in their rational self-interest. Their interests are not your interest.

The Aspies have limited means of social interaction. Accusations of inappropriate conduct seldom work for them, but they are often the best strategy an Aspie has for social survival.

When a man has no sword, and he has to fight with his fists, there's no point sneering at him for being one of those fist-fighters. He does not have the means to fight respectably, so he must fight disreputably.

If the Aspies were to try to get along, they would be trampled by petty, sneering people who hate Aspies just for having been born. Thus the Aspies who survive will be those who fight. And those Aspies who fight are not going to be pleasant to watch.

John Craig said...

Foreign country maniac --
Interesting blog you have.

Yes, your way of looking at it makes sense: in a way, it's their only available strategy, so they take it.

Steven said...

This kid is nice though John. He shows a lot of love to his friends. You seem to have only a negative view of the aspies personality...don't they differ enough to get good and bad, likeable and unlikable ones?

John Craig said...

Steven --
Overall my experience has been negative, but you're right, there is variety. I think I've known Aspies I've admired, but I'm not even sure if they had the syndrome.

gaikokumaniakku said...

@John Craig:
Thanks, glad you like the blog.

Postscript to previous comment: I am generalizing because most Aspies I have known have been socially disadvantaged. I have excused them for fighting dirty because most of them had been thrown under the bus by society. I don't get angry at people struggling to assert themselves when I see them being crushed by others.

If I ever met an Aspie in a position of social power, I would not excuse his/her attempts at social dominance; desperate fighting is justifiable for regaining balance, not for perpetuating imbalance.

John Craig said...

Gaikokumaniakku --
Both Al Gore and Bill Gates are widely thought to have Aspergers. Gates doesn't strike me as a combative sort (other than in business), but Gore had a somewhat domineering personality, at least that was the impression I got watching him in the debates. I found him to be extremely off-putting. His manner of speaking always made him sound as if was addressing a class of third graders, which made him come across very condescending.

What is your connection with Japan, if I may ask?

Anonymous said...

"With Aspies, it's as if they think the sheer vehemence of their disapproval will somehow demonstrate how sane and socially clued in they are."

Or it could be a simple case of psychological projection with no deeper thought involved. They behave inappropriately so they assume everyone else does too.

- Gethin

John Craig said...

Gethin --
That's possible. But I've seen them in action when they really ramp up the vehemence of their disapproval when someone is present whom they want to impress with their "social awareness." It's as if they're performing for that person. And if someone is acting inappropriately, a quiet little cue is usually enough to bring that person in line; big, violent, showy gestures just draw more attention to it.

Anonymous said...

You've probably had a lot more contact with Aspies than I have because I'm yet to see that trait (though I believe you that they do that).

This isn't relevant, but is poor personal hygiene a typical Aspie trait? I'm asking because I had a colleague at work who was a diagnosed Aspie and he stank strongly of body odour. My boss asked me to let him shadow me for a few days whilst he was very new and I had to pretend I was too hot so I could open the window to get rid of the smell. After that, I did get to know him a bit (thankfully, we didn't have to sit right next to each other anymore) and I thought he meant well; I never saw him deliberately do anything wrong, he was quick to apologise for any mistakes and we did have some interesting conversations. I never came up with a polite way to ask him to change his clothes more often though so I never said anything. I've read in textbooks that Aspies prefer it when people are open and honest, but reading blogs on Aspies made me worried he'd be offended after all. Did the Aspies you knew have poor hygiene? If so, did you come up with any polite ways of asking them to change their habits?

- Gethin

John Craig said...

Gethin --
Honestly, thats not something I've ever noticed with them. Not saying it couldn't be true, just saying I haven't noticed. And I've known plenty of NT's (neurotypicals, in Aspie-speak) who DO have bad body odor. At my gym there are a couple of guys who don't seem to wash their workout clothes, they must just put them in their bag after their workout and then must just take them out again for the next workout, because you can smell them from 15 feet way, and they really stink. And there's another guy at my gym who reeks of cigarettes (he doesn't work out, just uses the steam and jumps into the pool to do two slow laps, that's it). But I don't say anything to any of them, I don't need the static. I've decided, though, that smelling bad like that is a form of rudeness, it's as bad as talking loudly on a cell phone in an enclosed area, maybe worse.

Anonymous said...

The one's that deserve compassion are the one's that ask for it. In other words, neurodiversity members won't get any. I think they end up harming autistic individuals rather than helping them. Maybe if the emphasized the suffering, deficits, and struggles and admit they need help rather than being a bunch of asses, then people will have sympathy.

John Craig said...

Anon --
Couldn't agree more. An Aspie who won't admit he's ever wrong, who constantly criticizes, and who may not even admit he has Aspergers, does inspire sympathy.

Anonymous said...

I want to apologize on behalf of us. Maybe someone with asperger's hurt you, I am sorry if that happened. Or if neurodiversity attacked you, I know they can be awful.

I sometimes wonder if reincarnation exists, maybe I'm just burning off bad karma in this life. I better not make any new bad karma.

Do you think something in society can change? What is the best solution now? How can we make the world better despite ASD having to exist.

Maybe society is paying for some sins, I read plastic is linked to autism. I am the result of humanity harming the enviroment. I would like to believe there is something besides dumb chance.

John Craig said...

Anonymous Aspie --
No one with Aspergers has hurt me. Aspies aren't evil like sociopaths; they're just annoying.

But, no apologies necessary.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to be annoying.
Does it have to be a part of who I am? I don't want it to be. I want to be an individual.

John Craig said...

Anonymous --
We can all be annoying from time to time, though Aspies tend to be more so. And we can all be less annoying by making an effort to be less so. (Confession: I sometimes try to be more so.)

I know one Aspie who wasn't annoying at all.

Anonymous said...

It's hard having a horrific disease. If I knew you in person and I were to let you know in real life I was autistic, that may make you stop seeing me for who I am.

It sounds strange, but be thankful you turned out healthy. I've been at war with God over this since I was a kid.

John Craig said...

Anon --
The Aspies who are least annoying are those who admit they have it and try to counteract it. Honestly, you don't sound annoying. For annoying, look at the first 200 comments I got on my original post about Aspergers Syndrome:

http://justnotsaid.blogspot.com/2011/08/aspergers-syndrome.html

Those people are annoying, not just to me but I'm sure in real life as well, and for the same reason the narcissists are: because they'd never admit they're wrong. You don't sound that way at all.

Anonymous said...

That's true, those posts are annoying. But I am disturbed by some of the comments of the people annoyed by aspies. I can't help but imagine a scenario where they would have a double standard and be sympathetic to someone with another disorder,

Life is already hard enough. I don't want to be attacked on the street or called a subhuman.
Honestly, I imagine you've removed or filtered out posts from people telling them to commit suicide or calling them retards.....

Wouldn't they be at fault too?

John Craig said...

Anon --
There were no posts telling them to commit suicide, or calling them retards. And I've never heard of someone being attacked on the street for having Aspergers. Think of some of the extremely successful people who are widely thought to have it. Bill Gates. Al Gore.

As far as sympathy goes, I think people are naturally inclined to be sympathetic to anyone who admits he has a weakness. The people who are annoying, as I said above, are those who never admit fault. Are Aspies more likely to be that way? Yes, but that doesn't mean they're all like that.

Anonymous said...

Okay.
As for the famous people,
I don't think Bill Gates has it. He is charismatic and social.
I don't know about Al Gore. He was successful in school and sports so I'm not so sure.
Maybe both are on the spectrum, they have some mild form of autistic phenotype but not aspergers.

I don't like how the others like the 200 posts you said are ruining it for everyone. If it's anyone hurting me or autistic people I think, it's them. They are making it harder for people with the same disorder as them who want to be left in peace.

John Craig said...

Anon --
I disagree about Gates; I don't think anybody has ever described him as charismatic, and the fact that he's "social" is merely a function of his money bringing him into contact with lots of people. I also don't think Aspergers precludes spots success.