Someone told me recently that since I talk about sociopaths all the time, I should define exactly what they are. True enough: just because sociopathy is one of my obsessions doesn't make it so for everyone else. So, a brief three paragraph primer (lifted partly from a December '08 post) for those unfamiliar with the syndrome:
Sociopaths are not capable of real love or affection, and are disloyal to everyone. They feel no guilt or shame. They are dishonest, glib, and instinctively skillful manipulators. They hate others and are destructive. They are also supremely self confident, completely uninhibited, impulsive, and arrogant in the extreme. This gives them tremendous nerve and an ability to withstand what normal people would consider stressful conditions. As a result they are often great performers. They like to be in control and they hate to lose. They can be very charming, and often have dynamic, even electrifying personalities. But the more you get to know them, the more you see their hypocrisy and their core dishonesty. And they frequently think they're fooling people even when they're not. If you spend enough time with them, they will always leave you feeling used and bitter.
When you hear about someone that "you either love him or you hate him," he's probably a sociopath. If you hear that "he'll stop at nothing" to get what he wants, he's probably one. They often develop reputations as "pathological liars." They're often very successful, although they will often also crash after what seems like strangely self-destructive behavior.
Think of the most dishonest, two-faced, selfish -- in short, the most despicable -- person you've ever met. He's probably a pretty good example of sociopathy.
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45 comments:
John,
Do sociopaths need to be "loved"? Are they capable of loving their own child? Just wondering.
Donna
Donna -- Good questions. Sociopaths do often feel a bottomless need for affection in a way that nonsociopaths don't. These are called "affect hungry" sociopaths and the best example of them would be people who have Munchausen's Syndrome, if you're familiar with that. That's the "disease" whereby people fake having an illness in order to get the sympathy that sick people often get. (Ask yourself, what kind of person would lie to the point where they are actually taken to a hospital and use up a doctor's valuable time just to get attention?) An even better example which has recently come to light is what is called "Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy" whereby a sociopathic parent will cause his child to become so ill that the child needs medical attention, so that he (or she) can pose as a concerned parent and get attention that way. (Some parents have actually made their children seriously ill this way.)
Or ask yourself, what kind of person would lie about an accomplishment in order to gain someone else's admiration? That, too, indicates a bottomless need for others' good estimation (which, I realize, is not exactly the same thing as love).
As far as the capacity to love their own child, the Munchauen's example shows that sociopaths are not really capable of loving them the same way. They may be (relatively) loyal to their children, they may be proud of them, they may be happy to use them as props (especially if they're good-looking), but they don't feel it as deeply. I knew a sociopath once (and this guy was undoubtedly a sociopath) who would frequently say, right afer his first daughter was born, "I love my daughter. Man, do I love my daughter." A nonsociopath wouldn't have gone on that way beause there's no doubt that he loves his own daughter, and he wouldn't have felt the need to convince himself -- or anybody else -- of that fact. But this sociopath said it over and over. Sociopaths will always claim to love their children, and they may even believe that they do, but they're basically incapable of the same kind of deep, intense love that most parents have for their own children. Keep in mind, however that they are far more likely to engage in the kind of grand, showy gesture, which fools a lot of people.
I've been doing my own research and found that sociopathy is genetic.
Unfortunately I diagnozed my younger brother as a sociopath yesterday (he's 16, charming, pathological lyer, he imitates people extremely well, steals, gets extremely aggressive and when he can't obtain what he wants out of me or anyone else, he belittles them, gets bored very easily ... )
I doubt I'll tell him this though, that I found out he was a sociopath.
Also, is rap music sociopathic music?! How can such music resonate with people? I found a notebook in his room as well, with "rap lyrics" he wrote, about raping women, hatred towards women... "bitches, whores" ...
He often insults me and told me I was a "prostitute" yesterday, I answered : "I'm not a prostitute yet but okay, if you want me to be a prostitute, I'll go and prostitute myself!"
He replied in rage saying I quote: "If you do that, I SWEAR I'LL KILL YOU!"
my older sister is also a sociopath (thank god she doesn't live with us anymore.. she was less of a sociopath though, more of a manipulator, more secretive, and she could be alone read a book and leave us alone.. but whenever she had an idea, she would do ANYTHING to achieve it, regardless of any hurt she could inflict on others...My father is more of a passive-sociopath, my grand-father on my mother's side was a sociopath, and my grand-mother on my father's side is a sociopath. All I have is my mom =c , it's terrible. We were wondering if the stats of sociopaths were faked and actually higher? Living in a family of sociopaths makes us think we're the crazy ones...
Anonymous --
To answer your question, music itself of course can't be sociopathic, though many rap lyrics do sound as if they're written by a sociopath. As far as a 16 year old kid who listens to that stuff, that' snot rare, and a lot of kids at that age are just striking a pose. There are plenty of suburban kids who listen who are not sociopathic themselves.
And yes, sociopaths a re good at making others doubt themselves. But once you get wise to their tricks, they lose that power.
Finally, yes, sociopathy does run in families, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's genetic. Sociopathy usually occurs when there's no real bond formed with either parent in the first couple years of life, which is why so many kids who grow up in orphanages end up as sociopaths. And once that cycle is started, it can last for generations.
Anyway, good luck, it does sound as if you're in a difficult situation.
Sad but true. I was married to one of these guys. He lied about everything every single day of our lives. He lied about being a pilot in the Marine Corp and even purchased a flight suit and pinned wings on his uniform when he came to see me on the base. Lied about being in combat and had ribbons where he never went. He became verbally abusive after our child was borne and his selfishness was beginning to shed light. Everything he did 'out of kindness' had an underlying motive to bring attention and praise to himself. He was charming and smart and read lots of books on the CIA claiming himself to have served with them. He ended up destroying my oldest son's self worth and mine to the brink of a suicide attempt and became physically aggressive with both boys and me. I got the nerve to leave after much therapy. There was not a single therapist or social worker that did not tell me he was a sociopath. That made it worse through a bad assault. He got off scott free because so many people refused to believe he could do such a thing. But after loosing his job,leaving the state and is now shacked up with another women while we are still married, some folks are beginning to see that he is not what he says he was. Certainly not a Christian. He does not even have a relationship with his odest son for 13 yrs, but is driving around the woman's daughter and her friends. Scary. I feel for her. She has no idea what this man is capable of doing. I hope he will not kill her. I pray for her and her daughter and for God to show her before it is too late.
Anon --
Your ex certainly sounds like a textbook case. Claiming false glory (or "stolen valor," as that law calls it) is a common sociopathic activity.
And as far as this new woman goes, well, sociopaths always seem to be able to find a new victim, someone w ho hasn't been burned by a sociopath before and who will end up bitter -- and wiser -- for the experience.
Sorry you had to go through all that. At least you'll know what to watch out for next time.
My ex is a bona-fide sociopath. He is the most dishonest person that I've ever known, a real _sshole. In my opinion, he's a lunatic. He has put me through hell-on-earth. The stories I could tell. Unbelievable. These people are out of touch with reality, embarrassing themselves ten-fold, as well as their families. My ex has the charming personality, is a pathological liar, a thief, a cheater, etc. Basically, after examining his family-of-origin, I figured out that the disorder is in his family. He had the genes for sociopathy, but due to having a psycho father (he beat his kids with a belt, scaring the hell out of them) and a mother who didn't bond with her kids (she was "unaffectionate and unnurturing", as stated to me by his older sister), the ex developed into a sociopath. Basically, I feel that his parents destroyed a human being.
Anon --
Yes, your ex is definitely a sociopath. And being married to one is definitely hell on earth. Your description of his family background rings true, too, sociopaths become sociopaths mostly because they don't form a bond with another human being before the age of two, and after that, are unable to.
Sorry for all your troubles. Sociopaths are always a learning experience, but at least once we've been inoculated, we're immune next time, i.e., we'll never be as susceptible to another sociopath.
My sister is 45 and is a sociopath and has been most of her life. Being older I remember she started lying and manipulating around 3. I unfortunately was one of her very early "victims". She was spoiled & coddled by our live-in babysitter...that's when it esclated.
Now she has engulfed my grandmother, who has passed on, and especially my mother. Mother goes right along with sisters' actions and has rewarded her with no boundaries or consequences. Even worse, sister is a prescription pill junkie and mom is her financer. Sister has lost at least 20 jobs in as many years and lives with mom and is on welfare. Mom bankrupted herself for more than $500k, most on sister...lately drugs and issues with law in a bad way.
The rest of her family, especially my younger brother and myself...oh and sister is the "middle child" and has been angry about that since brother was born...have had to sit back helpless for our whole lives. We are fed up. Mother always defends sister and has even straight out put sister before even her own grandchildren! There is no seperation of the two of them. They are the toxic twins...we are the enemies who try to infiltrate.
What can we do to help ourselves?
Sincerely,
Ternimally disappointed & Kicked in the Head
Terminally disappointed --
Sorry to tel you this, but there's only one thing to do with sociopaths, and that is get away from them. You sister will never change, and as long as she has your mother under her thumb, your mother will side with hr. So put as much distance as possible between you and them. Your mother may wake up eventually, and if she does, you can welcome her back into the fold, but until such time, there's really noting you can do, so I suggest you and your brother just cut off contact with them. Sounds like you won't be missing out on much of an inheritance anyway if your mother has already bankrupted herself. And you have nothing to feel guilty about, sounds as if you've already given them more than enough chances.
My sister was a sociopath she is dead. The harm she inflicted on us, her family, is devistating to this day. She died in 1990. She was violent and sadistic. A deceptive back staber. Protect yourself by not engaging in their stuff. Have as little contact as possible. I know you live with one. You must protect yourself.
my sister isolated me from my friends in school to the point of me being openly harassed everyday. My self esteem was distroyed. Find out all you can about sociopaths.
Take care of yourselves
A family member is a sociopath/psychopath? (have heard both words used to describe him). He also has Munchausen's(thankfully not by proxy). He claims to love his cat but does not care how long he leaves it in a kennel when he goes touring hospitals all over the country with his symptoms (he has had several unecessary operations and I'm sure he has more knowledge than some of the doctors on the illnesses he picks).
Apart from this, he has caused untold fear, destruction and injury(both physical and mental) to others, but does not acknowledge any of it. Yet he is a child-like and vunerable person in many ways and although I know I can never trust him, I often find myself feeling sorry for him (everyone else has abandoned him and he is an old man now) and somehow get drawn in. Although these days I try to help (when he needs it, which seems to be practically all the time) from a distance.
I don't think he is capable of loving or caring for anyone other than himself and wonder how lonely this must feel.
When his mother (my beautiful, sweet, kind, grandmother - okay, I admit he's my dad) died he informed me he was going out to a really good restaurant to celebrate! He was very cruel and abusive to her before she died with alzeimer's. He lived with her as her 'carer' and even though I informed social services he was not suitable. They ignored me, insisting he was very caring and attentive to my grandmother, they really seemed to think the sun shone out of his bottom. Even the day she was found thin-as-a-rake, wandering the street in confusion and covered in bruises, he managed to wriggle his way out of it.
I only discovered your blog today.
I read your Asperger's post first. My young nephew has been diagnosed with it. Yet he is not at all as you described, he's really lovely and many of his traits are opposite to those you atribute to AS. I find you quite spot on with Sociopathy though.
It has been interesting and helpful to read this post and the comments.
You mentioned that sociopaths hate I don't think so. They don't care enough yo hate. If you mess with their projected world they will isolate you. We had one make a deal with is. She would leave our world alone if we left her projected world alone. In her world we had abused her and this was her source of pity that she didn't want messed up. This was the reason for the deal.
Anon --
Trust me, sociopaths hate. I've known several and when you got to know them, you'd find they were always brimming over with venom, and loved seeing other people get hurt. And a few of these sociopaths would do whatever they could to hurt others, as long as they felt they could get away with it, even if they had nothing tangible to gain from it.
"And a few of these sociopaths would do whatever they could to hurt others, as long as they felt they could get away with it, even if they had nothing tangible to gain from it."
Not just when they haven't anything to gain - they'll even do it when it actively causes them to lose something. After I blocked a sociopath on Facebook, he got so angry that he started a smear campaign against me in a public FB group. Fortunately, the moderators were onto him and he was expelled from the group, my reputation untarnished. Still, it's a good illustration of the way they'll hurt people even if they damage themselves in the process. The phrase "don't cut off your nose to spite your face" applies brilliantly to sociopaths.
Anon --
You're right, they can do that, although I've usually found that they attack in a way which leaves them covered. But yes, they are also sometimes willing to take a blow just in order to land one.
Oh, he did TRY to orchestrate the smear campaign in a way that left him covered. He used the tactic of making me look the one who'd wronged him, but I placed a very carefully-considered comment in reply so I successfully mitigated the damage done by turning the tables on him. I think I wrote something along the lines of "only a true narcissist would make a statement like that - even if I were guilty of what he's accusing me, a non-narcissist wouldn't spontaneously make an unprovoked post about it in a pubic forum. Perhaps the author would do well reading the Wikipedia page on psychological projection - and everyone else the page on smear campaigns - to see what's really going on here". My comment was clever enough to draw everyone to my side, but I wouldn't have been able to think it up had I not been educated on narcissism & sociopathy.
Anon --
That does sound like a clever response. Anyway, I'm glad you got the upper hand there.
Listening to what others say about someone is a very good way of avoiding sociopaths. I never used to take much notice of anyone's reputation; I preferred getting to know people and judging them for myself. For a while I was glad I didn't listen to reputations as I met a few nice people that I wouldn't have become friends with if I had taken other people's prejudices into account. Until, of course, I met a sociopath. He had a very bad reputation (he told me this himself) and was banned from many online groups for being a troll. However, he seemed nice to me so I ignored what everyone else said and gave him a chance. Oh, how I wish I had listened!
My tip is this: there is *usually* no smoke without fire (that is: everyone may be mistaken about that person, but usually not). If someone has a bad reputation, but you still want to give them a chance anyway, keep your guard up for the first few months. Talk and be nice to them, but do not trust them with anything important until you really know them. Don't let them borrow anything and don't share any personal information that could be used against you in future. Whatever you do, do not engage in any sexual activities with them and do not enter any romantic relationship! (Sociopaths love 'whirlwind romance', where they want to start a relationship/move in with/marry you ASAP. If someone is unwilling to take things slowly, this could be a red flag). Ignore this advice at your own peril.
Anon --
Your comment exudes common sense. You're absolutely right about the smoke. If one person speaks ill of someone, take it conditionally; if everybody does, beware.
Good advice all around.
I've been married for 20 years, with what I am now believing to be a sociopathic husband. Finally, I separated from him a year ago, and am only now starting to see some of the things friends and family have been telling me for years. Unfortunately, I grew up feeling unloved. I believe this made me a perfect target. At all costs, I wanted my marriage go survive. I wanted my children to grow up in a two parent home. The first 10 years, felt like a dream (not really when I now really analyze his behaviors and motivations), the last 10 truly have been a nightmare. He has lied countless times, cheated, used drugs, and I always took him back. Now that I am not, the worst of the worst is coming out. He lies constantly, he manipulates, he guilts, denies, and side steps anything that will substantiate my point. It is so bad, that it has been suggested I move for my own safety. I don't know what the answer is for me, as I see the risk in staying. The worst pain I feel is for my children (we have 3). He ignores them, blames them, and only connects w them when it suits him. It breaks my heart. I cannot comprehend psycologically how a man, a father can do this. That actually is what has brought me to your site. How of all things can a parent so easily hurt an innocent child. Their child? Please help me understand as I only want the best for my children.
Anon --
If you're looking o me for help then you are in dire straits.
If your husband does all the things you say, he is a sociopath, and if he is a sociopath, then your children are better off with minimal contact with him anyway. Nobody is better off for their contact with a sociopath, not even his children.
Sociopaths are destructive, dishonest creatures, and in the long run only hurt those they are around. If your friends and family are telling you to move for your safety, maybe you should listen. And if the children are being blamed -- for whatever -- by him, they will only be losing being manipulated, not being loved, since a sociopath is not capable of giving love.
im pretty sure i was engaged to a sociopath. pretty much met this person, they lured me in so quick. i fell head over hills in love. i am a woman and never knew another woman could be such a horrible person. what this girl put me through . i started noticing things, the tall tales, apprentently her mother tried to kill her when she was little, which may be the only thing that was true. her and her family were in the mob,murdered,sold drugs,she was a recovering herion addict, the list really goes on. the real kicker was she went went to therapy because of her childhood problems, actually lured the therapist somehow. i found a deep love letter from her therapist, ended up losing her license and i ended up figuring her out and moved states away. theres nothing she wouldnt lie about and she doesnt care about the hurt she has caused in fact she says its not her fault....uhhhh i will prolly write a book....theres so much its nuts
Anon --
If everything you say is true, you can eliminate the "I'm pretty sure" from your first sentence. One of the surest signs of sociopathy is to be a "pathological liar," and your former fiancee fits that bill. Plus she seems to have left a trail of purposeful destruction behind her, another sure sign.
well now that i have been reading up on it and somewhat understand it, i know what to look for. but what i cant quite grasp is if it is a mental illness, can they help it? do they infact know that they r destroying people and hurting others? how can you get help if you look at everyone as something to be used? i mean because this therapist who had a husband and 3 kids, and 23 years....just lost everything. i mean she made a bad decision and i cant stand her for it. but my fiancee seen her as weak and went with it, how is that a mistake, you know u r preying on weak people or a bad time in there life.but what gets me is the therapist could of been good for her if she wouldnt of taken advantage and thats sad. i feel like she will burn every bridge. even now her family loves her from a distance. i heard her family pretty much tell her they dont wanther moving back to louisville because she was too much. for your family to feel that way, thats crazy.
Falynn --
I got lost in the pronouns there at the end of your comment, but here are the answers to the questions you asked at the beginning:
Sociopathy generally isn't regarded as a mental illness, it's more of a syndrome. Sociopaths can't help but be sociopaths, but they can help their destructive behavior if they want, but they don't care enough to change. They don't see themselves as needing help, they just see everyone else as weak. If they do go to see a court-ordered psychiatrist, they will just generally do their best to hoodwink the psychiatrist, play games and pretend that they're not what they are.
Sorry I lost you, the whole situation was a mess and I'm finally getting closure by my research and by finding this blog. I never thought I would fall in love with a sociopath, I am smarter then that. thanks for your input.. I do have plans of writing a book about my experience because theres so many details and so much too my story, do you think I should worry about my safety, I never seen my ex as violent but then again, who knows these days? thanks again
Falynn --
Sure, no problem, my pleasure. I don't know enough about your ex to know whether he's likely to be violent. I do know that all sociopaths are by definition capable of anything, but most of them don't get violent because they don't want to go to jail.
Don't feel stupid, we all feel stupid after being fooled by a sociopath; all it means is we're not sociopaths ourselves and had no idea anyone could be that lowdown.
People like you make life hard for people like me.
Anon --
Why? Are you a sociopath?
I believe I am married to a sociopath.
He lies, he steals, he blames everyone else, he refuses to change the smallest of things (ie.putting things away in wrong places) he blames me for everything that has gone wrong for him.I am now very ill and really don't have the strength to get away. He still causes so much extra stress (doesn't work, not paying bills)He consistantly acts like a child. I truly wish one of us would die soon.
Lannyrock --
I hope for your sake it's him.
How can you be sure a person isn't narcissistic instead of psychopathic ? Or a sochiopath?
Lannyrock --
That was my first thought but the bit about lying and stealing push it over into sociopathic territory. Narcissists refuse to change and blame others for their things that are their own fault, but they generally don't lie and steal the way sociopaths do.
So what can you suggest I do? Any imput would be greatly appreciated
Lannyrock --
The advice I give everyone is just to get away; a sociopath will never change and will never do anybody else any good. But you say you're too sick to get away, so I don't know what else to tell you.
I've read the advice on many post to "run", get away, remove yourself from the toxic relationship. But when it's your parent and you just don't want to be hurt by them anymore, it gets complicated.....especially as they age. My mom is 73, and I'm 50. I always been there for her when she really had a need, but there have been times where we didn't talk for up to a year. We're there again. I feel guilty, because she's my mom and I'm suppose to honor her. But I don't want to be hurt right now. I'm not ready. The problem is, people who don't know how she really is are fooled by her charm. They believe things about me that aren't true. They tell me I need to step up to the plate and call her to see how she is - visit her. It's been seven months since she did a number on my heart. She hasn't reached out to me in all that time. She has a phone and is online, but since she's getting old now, some people think I should overlook it and be the bigger person. Yes, I should, but I don't want to be an enabler. If she called me for a legitimate need I would not deny her.
All this to say that when you finally do break free of a toxic parent (or try to distance yourself from them), others who don't know how it's been make you out to be a bad daughter or son. Then you have a whole new set of guilt and pressure to deal with. I guess I need to not let it get to me so much. The problem is that I do care what they think. I've always tried to do good by my mom, but they don't know that side. Just note that they will not always be young. As they get old they get away with their bad behavior easier. People make excuses, but you know that this is nothing new. It's not because they're old; just mean and selfish!
Rhonda Blair Perry --
That's the problem with sociopaths, they'll do their best to make you look bad to other people. And they enjoy playing the victim (and are also more likely to actually see themselves as the victim, no matter how untrue that is). What you should probably do is just go through the motions while separating yourself emotionally. It sounds as if you've already broken free psychologically, which is the most important thing. You recognize her for what she is, and now you just have to deal with the situation, which you should be able to do more easily now that you've sort of reduced her power over you by analyzing her. (In a sense.)
Thank you! Sorry, I couldn't stand all the typos I found so deleted it and posted an editted version. :) I will go thrugh the motions, as you've suggested. The part I'm struggling with is my pride. I don't want to call her after being treated that way. It gives her the power she craves. She wants to be superior. Ugh! Thanks again!
Rhonda --
My pleasure, and no problem about the typos, at least you took time to correct them. when I first posts your amended comment, my response was in front of it, so I copied that and reposted my own response, as well as deleting the original one.
It sounds to me as if you've already figured the situation out, and have already distanced yourself emotionally from her. Remember, the only power she has over you is the power you allow her to have over you, and you don't need to give her any. So, just go through the motions, enough so that you can defend yourself to anyone who accuses you of neglecting her, and whenever she tries to pull her manipulative act on you, you don't have to respond, just laugh at her internally (silently) and think to yourself, you used to be like the Wicked Witch of the West to me, but now I see you for what you are, which is a pathetic old woman who no longer has the power to twist me around anymore. Too bad for you!
Thanks for the encouragement! Right after your last note I compromised by texting her a nice little message so she would at least know I'm thinking about her. I also told her to feel free to contact me; ending it with, "Love, Rhonda." It's been almost 24 hours and I haven't received a response, but at least a bit of pressure is off. Thanks again for taking the time to invest in others!
Rhonda --
Sure, and good luck. You're doing the right thing -- by doing the right thing, but not putting your heart in it. She'll do her best to make you feel guilty when you're next in contact with her, but just be prepared for that -- and don't succumb to it.
Hello, I think that I might be living with a sociopath. I recently discovered that my wife has been lying to her co-workers for the last 7 years about the health of our child. I had my suspicions but, never had any proof until recently. My wife I thought was a loving mother and great wife. She did have her moments and I just played them off to the stress of her job. What I found out recently has changed my mind to that and the more I research and read blogs, I think I might be in a bad place. I feel kind of stupid but, I am not sure if I want to leave her because I want to do what is best for our kids.
So here it is: My wife and I have been together for 20+ years and have two kids. I have always trusted her completely and respected her privacy as far as her phone and text goes as I didn't feel I had anything to fear. Recently I saw a weird text when I was handing her phone to her and it got me wondering. It kept bothering me and I had to know so I looked through her text one day when she was not around. What I found was that she has been claiming our son has had cancer for the last 7+ years. There were multiple text to multiple people with the most recent one only a few weeks ago. The one that drove me to the edge was that she said "he might not make it until Christmas".
I confronted her and she has went to see a psychiatrist and is going again this week. I am in shock and am not sure how or what to do. Any advice.
Anonymous --
I hate to make a judgment based on just one piece of evidence, but it does sound as if your wife has Muchausen-by-proxy, which is basically a subset of sociopathy. If I were you I'd do some research on that. I've written about it on this blog (just type that into the subject bar), and you can read about it elsewhere as well. But claiming your child has cancer is one of the most common ways for someone who has Munchausen-by-proxy to gain sympathy from others.
Just so you know, there have been plenty of cases of mothers who've actually made their children sick in order to get attention and sympathy.
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