Search Box

Monday, August 18, 2014

What type of women do lesbians prefer?

The feminist mentioned two posts below scolded me about how the average woman is programmed by "a lifetime of insidious brainwashing so subtle she doesn't notice it" by Barbie dolls and the like, and how "men aren't judged primarily on their appearance, as women are." After getting that tongue-lashing, I thought to myself, well, lesbians themselves -- who tend to be the most vocal and militant wing of the feminist movement -- must certainly have better values than men.

I thought, these right-thinking liberal lesbians must not subscribe to the unfair concept of beauty promulgated by the patriarchy. They must be happy to be with another woman who is overweight, with ordinary features, and who looks, in the immortal words of feminists, like a "real woman."

And what better proof of this could there be than rich and famous lesbians, who obviously have their pick of women? I would certainly hope that these successful role models and powerful spokespeople for the movement would lead by example and not subscribe to those male-dominated standards of beauty which feminists so bitterly denounce.

So, I Google-imaged Rosie O'Donnell, Ellen Degeneres, Martina Navratilova, and Melissa Etheridge and their partners, confident that all these rich lesbians must have happily settled for women who looked, well, like them.

Here are some of the results of that search:

Rosie O'Donnell and her first wife Kelli Carpenter:

Rosie O'Donnell and her subsequent girlfriend Tracy Kachtick-Anders:

Rosie O'Donnell and current wife Michelle Rounds:

Ellen DeGeneres and former girlfriend Anne Heche:

Ellen DeGeneres and former partner Alexandra Hedison:

Ellen DeGeneres and wife Portia de Rossi:

Martina Navratilova and (former Miss Texas contestant) Judy Nelson:

Martina Navratilova and more recent girlfriend (and former Miss Universe contestant) Julia Lemigova (on left):

Melissa Etheridge and former partner Tammy Lynn Michaels:

I admit, these pictures were culled for effect. There are prominent lesbians, like Rachel Maddow and Cynthia Nixon, who have partners who look more like stereotypical lesbians. But enough of the rich and powerful ones have paired up with traditionally pretty women (Jodie Foster recently married Alexandra Hedison, who is pictured above with Ellen DeGeneres) that it can't possibly just be coincidence.

Evidently it's not just those piggish men who, when given their druthers, prefer Barbie doll types.


Anonymous said...

No way would those hags be pulling that kind of tail, if they weren't rich... which probably tells you more about the Barbie dolls, than the "Kens".

John Craig said...

Anon --
You're right on both counts.

Steven said...


John Craig said...

Steven --
Thank you, but it really wasn't all that clever; all I had to do was post the pictures and they spoke for themselves.

Steven said...

It was a clever idea.

I thought about it and they might not be feminists or radical feminists just cos they're lesbians.

Also, that woman you were debating with, she said men 'judge women solely on their looks' or something similar, which (if you give her the benefit of the doubt...i'm not sure leads to the correct interpretation but still) doesn't mean there aren't beautiful women or you can't be attracted to beautiful women; it just means don't judge them solely on their looks.

Steven said...

...although I get the point, it makes the patriarchal standards of beauty crap look hypocritical.

Most women aren't rad fems and probably a lot of lesbians aren't. Ellen doesn't come across as an angry man hating rad fem.

John Craig said...

Steven --
Okay, thanks.

True, just because someone is a lesbian doesn't mean they are political. (Of the four I pictured, Rosie O'Donnell is very political, and the other three restrict their politicking to gay rights and things like veganism.) But the point was not that these women are hypocrites, it's that women who like women, when they have their choice, will pick traditionally feminine, pretty women. The feminist commenter had basically said that men are pigs who judge a woman "primarily" on her looks. (In fairness to her, she did not use the word "solely.")

I agree, no one should judge anybody on their looks; but who you're attracted to is mostly a mater of looks, for these lesbians as well as for men.

Steven said...

okay. I get it. Good points.

Whatever the commenter is claiming men do, these famous women appear to be doing exactly the same thing anyway!

I wonder are famous straight women going after trophy men? Perhaps the fact they are wealthy allows them to focus on looks and abrogates their need to find financial security. But maybe it would cause problems if the woman earned a lot mroe than the men.

note: I think there are some lesbians though who like the manly type of lesbian, the bull dikes. Just like there are preferences for feminine or butch gay men.

John Craig said...

Steven --
In order:

I agree about Ellen, I've actually always been a fan of hers. I liked her original TV sitcom, I've liked her standup whenever I've seen it, and I liked her as an Oscar host. (Does that make me sound gay or what?)

My impression is that rich, famous straight women have trophy boyfriends more than trophy husbands. I remember hearing that Katie Couric was dating some guy in his 30's who was a triathlete, but then she married some guy who was more age- and income-appropriate. Your assumption makes sense -- that they have less need for financial security, so don't ned to marry rich -- but I haven't gotten the impression that they marry young him-bos often.

I agree, I often see lesbian couples and think, aha, that's the "man" in the relationship. (I'm not making any sort of moral judgment here, just an observation.)

Glen Filthie said...


John I may be mistaken but I will throw it out there anyways.

It is my scholarly opinion that the idea that 'opposites attract' be restricted to particle theory and excluded from sociology. What I am seeing there is the exact opposite: 'like attracts like'.

With the exception of Rosie O'Donut those girls are all fairly pretty and moderately intelligent. They are probably going to run with partners that are the same whether they are heterosexual or homosexual - assuming of course, that we leave the 'trophy wives' as the exception to the rule.
I think that this 'fat and ugly acceptance' thing being pushed by certain parties is an attempt to garner some 'sexual market value' by artificial means. Unfortunately I think that the majority of women that push it don't understand that their personalities are as repulsive as their physical looks - which just makes them more unhappy.
My experience with lesbians is that most, good looking or not - will not tolerate any critique or criticism even if it is offered in good faith in an effort to be constructive.
I will be most interested to see how your adversary responds to your post.

Anonymous said...

Melissa Etheridge and Tammy Lynn Michaels have ended their relationship.

John Craig said...

Anon --
I'll correct that, thanks.

John Craig said...

Glen --
I was using the "opposites attract" theory here in the sense that, in the same way men are attracted to women and vice versa, lesbians are attracted to their opposite number sexually, i.e., they have "tops" and "bottoms" the same way male homosexuals do. it's not always the case, but i've seen it often enough to note.

I agree about the SMV thing, in fact that was sort of the point of this post: that despite all the propaganda, standards of beauty are pretty much universal, and are "agreed upon" even by liberal lesbians who have their choice of mates.

I suspect that feminist who commented a few days ago will see neither this post nor my more direct response to her a couple days ago. Usually wen someone writes something combative, it means they're disinclined to visit this blog again. I do hope she sees it though.

Anonymous said...

I think a more powerful argument would be that women themselves often judge other women on their looks.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that most of this 'brainwashing' that comment spoke of comes from women.

In my experience, women often dress up not so much to impress men, but to impress other women. Often the designer or name they are wearing is only relevant to other women (men hardly notice, and they know that).

Don't get me wrong, women dress and act to impress men. Feminists are technically right in that sense. What they are wrong about is that they blame that on men.

Women definitely 'feminize' themselves through their own social mechanisms. Women do not want to associate with other women who don't fit into social norms.

The same goes for the opposite direction - men certainly dress and act to impress women, but to a certain extent that also do it to impress other men. Not so much because they care what they other men think, but because they want to fit in.

I tend to think a lot of these feminists simply don't like the idea of fitting in (they are fat, ugly, socially awkward, or gay) and therefor look for something to blame rather than recognizing that they themselves are the ones who are going against the grain, so to speak.

John Craig said...

Anon --
That's an excellent analysis.

I wasn't suggesting that the pictures I posted were the most powerful argument against feminist theory regarding looks, but merely that it highlighted a certain universality of what is considered attractive, even among lesbians, despite all the rhetoric that comes from that corner.

I agree that women generally dress to impress (or one-up) other women, and with everything you say about fitting in. I also agree that men act to impress other men. But I don't agree that they dress to impress other men. At least among straight guys, most realize that other men don't really care about how they dress, and as a rule only dress nicely when there will be women around.

Anonymous said...

John, stop posting soft porn, you dirty old man!!!
That shot of portia de rossi was stunning btw. Really hits you emotionally and sexually. Can't believe ellen tapped that....was she the sociopath?

OT, why don't you try low dosage TRT or HGH? Just wondering. I'm told in men above 50, it makes a real difference, with minimal/no health hazards.

John Craig said...

Anon --
C'mon, I may be a dirty old man, but this post was hardly soft porn: everybody was fully clothed.

No, Portia de Rossi is not a sociopath as far as I know, and I would think that Ellen has wised up to them after her experience with Anne Heche. (Check out the sociopath alert on her in this blog.)

I haven't tried TRT or HGH yet, I'm pretty healthy so far. (Why would you want to make me into an even dirtier old man?) One thing that does bother me, I get the impression that some of the guys I'm competing against in masters swimming are taking those, so technically, I'm competing against "doped" athletes. Anyway, haven't gone over to the dark side myself yet.

Anonymous said...

Sexy baby!!!
No ferguson remarks? Too easy??

Anyway, you should do Michael Jordan post on psychopathy.... just saying.

John Craig said...

Anon --
Honestly, I have nothing to say about Ferguson that hasn't been said already, other than pointing out that summertime is when riots occur and any excuse is good enough for looting.

I agree with you about Jordan, by the way. He's not at the top of my list of profiles, though. Anyway, I've been busy with other stuff the past few days, and have not had the motivation to post.

Anonymous said...

This is very much aligned with my experience of observing lesbians IRL, as a member of various LGBT societies. The lesbians there were nearly all feminine, bar a small percentage who were more butch than the average woman (but only slightly so; I never met any lesbian bodybuilders or anything like that).

I think the stereotype of lesbians being masculine comes from 'political lesbians' (straight/asexual feminists who pretend to be gay). Those type of women are naturally masculine and resent that they've been compelled throughout their lives to be feminine, so they assume all women must secretly feel the same way but are too brainwashed to realise it. As I've said before, these radical feminists are amongst the most miserable, humourless people on the planet. Few of them are actually in relationships because they aren't lesbians at all in the original sense of the term. Sheila Jeffreys, one of the most prominent radical feminists, actually said that lesbianism should be about rejection of sex with men rather than sex with women (call me overly literal, but that sounds like celibacy to me).

None of the actual lesbians I've known IRL were anything like these dour radfems that have hijacked what it means to be lesbian.

- Gethin

John Craig said...

Gethin --
I've never been member of an LGBT society, but I've known a fair number of lesbians, and I have to disagree. I think there is a correlation with masculinity, and as proof I'd offer the rich and famous lesbians above: Ellen Degeneres, Rosie O'Donnell, Martina Navratilova, and Melissa Etheridge. Of the four, only Navratilova is outright masculine, but none of the other three are exactly feminine. And they are more closely aligned on the masculinity-femininity scale with the lesbians I've known. Their partners, as shown here, are obviously feminine, and exceptionally good-looking.