The person who had been commenting on the Prison pen pals VII post about Fredrick Baer sent in another batch of comments on that post again recently.
The case for Baer's sociopathy is open and shut, as I detailed on that post and again here and here. But no matter how clearly I explained this, the commenter, who claimed to be a therapist, kept making ridiculous excuses for him, blaming all of his actions on crystal meth, and saying he was a caring and empathetic individual who was now doing wonderful work for children.
I eventually started to wonder about the commenter, so I asked what kind of therapist he or she was, and whether the commenter was male or female. (I had gradually gotten the sense that the commenter was female.)
The commenter wouldn't answer my questions, but instead lashed out at me. She called me a destructive sociopath, said I must have come from a bad family background, and even suggested I might be a murderer myself.
Right after this, another commenter wrote in, asking the first commenter if she were Baer's German girlfriend/pen pal. (Up until then, I hadn't heard about her.)
At that point, the scales finally fell from my eyes. That must be who this commenter is, and she obviously suffers from hybristophilia. (Think in terms of those unbalanced women who have been drawn to killers like Ted Bundy and Richard Ramirez, and who flocked to their trials and essentially become their "groupies.")
All this time, I was using facts and logic to convince this commenter that Baer was a sociopath, but I was basically talking to a crazy person. Which sorta makes me crazy as well, for thinking I could talk sense to her.
My other mistake was in assuming that when she said she was a "therapist," that she was a psychotherapist of some sort. She could be an aromatherapist, an occupational therapist, a massage therapist, or any number of other things. To call oneself "a therapist" if you're one of the latter, particularly in the context of a discussion of psychology, seems intentionally misleading; but I still shouldn't have made that assumption.
When I told my son that I had finally gotten the sense that the commenter was a woman, he laughed at me. "Of course it's a woman," he scoffed. "No one else could be that mushy-headed. It took you that long to figure it out? You're an idiot."
Guilty as charged.
But, she's not just any woman. She's a very special kind: a hybristophiliac.
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15 comments:
When you wrote about that person earlier, I imagined a woman, actually kind of assumed it for some reason.
Is your son ever nice to you?
Slightly off topic but within the spectrum is this interesting blog entry I came across.
http://uncabob.blogspot.com/2014/08/theres-no-such-thing-as-independent.html
If she's a hybristo whatever, wouldn't she like to think of him as a killer and sociopath instead of defending him? Or is it more subconscious?
Steven --
You have better instincts as well. When the commenter said "therapist," for some reason I thought of a man, but over the course of the "correspondence," what with the semi-hysterical tone and the absolute refusal to listen to logic, I gradually realized it was a woman.
Ha! Actually I have a great bantering relationship with him. I've been accused in the past of being more like an older brother than a father to him, and there's definitely some truth to that.
I'm not sure exactly how that works. Gethin mentioned once that hybristophiliacs are often co-morbid with borderline personalities, and that one of the reasons they're attracted to inmates is because of their fear of desertion, and they know the inmates aren't gong anywhere. this one seems to have it set in her mind that Baer is a decent person (while simultaneously accusing me of being a sociopath and murderer). Hey, maybe that means she should be attracted to me!
Arthur --
UncleBob is great, I read his blog frequently, though I'd missed that post. He definitely pulls no punches. And, of course, he's completely right: men HAVE invented pretty much everything. (Except for hybristophilia, I guess; women get the credit for that one.)
'You have better instincts as well''.
One swallow doesn't make a summer.
That second sentence lol.
Yeah if you said you had murdered somebody, she'd probably warm to you.
Or maybe she is just gullible. And she possibly said she was a therapist just to give herself credibility.
Steven --
Yes, I think she said she was a therapist to sound knowledgeable.
I don't really think that you realized just yet that the commenter was a woman and was involved in a somewhat romantic relationship with Baer. You could tell right away.
I must tell, though, I find this rather sexist:
"... what with the semi-hysterical tone and the absolute refusal to listen to logic, I gradually realized it was a woman."
:/
Anyway, why do you keep pushing her buttons? :)
Anon --
I was definitely slow on the uptake about the nature of her relationship with Baer, and also her mental illness.
Yes, it is sexist. (It's also true.) I'm not saying all women are that way, and neither am I suggesting all men are paragons of logic. But that sort of tone is definitely something you hear more often from women.
Would it also be sexist of me to say that hybristophilia is a female disease?
Good question about why I kept pushing her buttons. At first I was honestly just trying to convince her of Baer's sociopathy. After a while though, with her insistence and absolutely refusal to listen to reason, I got pretty fed up with her and expressed that. Finally, I decided I just wouldn't respond anymore, and made some comment to that effect, but that was when the other commenter asked her if she was his German girlfriend, and it was at that point that the scales finally fell from my eyes.
Can't resist:
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.
As Good As It Gets-Jack Nicholson
Arthur --
Shame on you!
Dudes -
My wife left a comment on your last post about Baer - he is a murderer. He killed a woman and her child. He does NOT try to argue this…my wife is his pen pal.
There are circumstances and legal issues, though, that award him the legal right appeal.
Don't be a jerk about someone's legal right. Or someone you don't know.
We met this man due to our realization that the legal system sucks. He admitted his guilt. Some douche got mad at us and had us arrested for something we didn't' do with NO evidence. Yeah, you can accuse anon of anything.
Acquitted.
Main point: don't just hate. This is a man who accepted what he did ( he hates it…he HATES IT) and isn't denying it. He's looking to change he life.
In the Bible, God/Jesus Killers were punished and hung on crosses - including the one Jesus forgave.
Mr./Mrs. Fruphanpsqheimer --
Fredrick Baer CANT very well argue that he is not a murderer, as the evidence against him was overwhelming. (He only tried to argue it when he was trying to get off the charge.)
You seem to employ the same logic as your wife: you can't judge someone you don't know personally, i.e., none of us should be judgmental about Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy, since we never knew them personally.
And, by calling me a "Jerk," aren't you being judgmental about someone you don't know personally yourself? As a matter of fact, your wife -- if this is really her husband I'm speaking to -- said I was a sociopath and a murderer, which is not only making a judgment about someone she doesn't know, but a false one at that.
As far as the legal system goes, it certainly does have its drawbacks, but I'd say in this case it worked quite well, as it caught a double murderer and brought him to justice.
I don't hate Baer. My hate is reserved for those I know personally, who have done me harm. But I do recognize him for what he is, which is a sociopathic con man.
If this is in fact Erica's husband, I must say, you're a very understanding man, as it doesn't seem to bother you that Erica has been referred to in some media outlets as Baer's "German girlfriend."
"When I told my son that I had finally gotten the sense that the commenter was a woman, he laughed at me. "Of course it's a woman," he scoffed. "No one else could be that mushy-headed. It took you that long to figure it out? You're an idiot."
And of course, you corrected him immediately?
The exchanges (excepting the one above) are quite hilarious though. In a scary way.. sociopathic groupies?? I guess the Manson women were hybristophiliacs as well, yikes.. :O
Marie --
Ha, I'm afraid I couldn't correct him, given that he had immediately come to the right conclusion and I had been so much slower about it.
Interesting thought about Manson's followers. I'd say his later followers were all hybristophiliacs, but his earlier ones were just lost sheep, dumb acidheads who fell under the influence of a charismatic sociopath. (Part of hybristophilia is evidently a fear of being abandoned, which you won't be by someone who's in jail.)
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