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Monday, February 23, 2015

Giuliani's comments

Rudy Giuliani's comments about Barack Obama got a fair amount of publicity over the past few days. In his first set of comments Giuliani questioned Obama's love of country:

"I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe that the President loves America. He doesn't love you. And he doesn't love me. He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up through love of this country."

Loving one's country has always been a somewhat slippery concept. It's one of those things that people claim to do, but what does it really mean? That one loves all the real estate extending from Canada to Mexico? That one loves every US citizen? That one loves the current administration? That one loves all of the USA's past actions? That one loves the direction the US is headed in? 

And as far as not loving "you" and "me," well, how many of us truly love strangers? The honest answer is, none of us. 

Patriotism has always been a concept that scoundrels tend to hide behind, and its meaning is often twisted into whatever a politician feels suits his own best interests. 

For instance, Barack Obama himself questioned George W. Bush's patriotism back in 2006 when Bush raised the debt ceiling. (Obama himself later raised the ceiling further when he became President, though no one seemed to question his patriotism for doing so.)

In any case, love of country is such a vague, ill-defined standard that it's a topic best avoided by those who would hurl accusations.

Giuliani said the next day that Obama had been under the sway of communists since he was a young boy. An excerpt from a NY Post article

“From the time he was 9 years old, he was influenced by Frank Marshall Davis, who was a communist,” Giuliani said. Giuliani also said another bad influence on Obama was Saul Alinsky, a community organizer whom the ex-mayor called a “socialist.”

“He spent 17 years in the church of Jeremiah Wright, and this is the guy who said ‘God damn America, not God bless America,’ ’’ Giuliani said.

“Obama never left that church.”

“He was educated by people who were critics of the US. And he has not been able to overcome those influences.”

About this, there seems little doubt. Giuliani didn't even mention that Obama's own grandparents were members of the Communist Party. Nor did he mention the fact that Obama had admitted in his own autobiography that he was always drawn to Leftist professors when in college. Nor did he mention Obama's close association with Bill Ayers, the former Weatherman Underground bomber. 

The proof of all this is that the White House didn't even attempt to deny the charges. Instead they tried to imply that Giuliani was crazy: 

“I can tell you that it’s sad to see when somebody who has attained a certain stature and even admiration tarnishes that legacy so thoroughly,” press secretary Josh Earnest said Friday.

“There’s no element of schadenfreude that people are feeling around here. What people are feeling is sorry for Rudy Giuliani.”

And to hammer the message home, Earnest added a personal note. “I think, really, the only thing that I feel is to feel sorry for Rudy Giuliani today,” he said.

This, of course, is exactly what the Soviets did to dissidents back in the good old days of the USSR: call them crazy. If anyone had the temerity to criticize the Soviet government, the government would simply label the person insane and send him off to the gulag. 

Unfortunately for the Obama administration, they can't just ship their critics off to Siberia. But they do seem to be taking a page out of the Soviet playbook while not even addressing the issue of whether the President was basically a red diaper baby.

Which, of course, he was. 


Remnant said...

And Obama's mother was an extreme leftist, drawn to leftist men.

Obama's father was a racial socialist, essentially applying Marxist concepts to further his race. Which is a very good description of what Obama is really about (and Holder, who is worse than Obama in my view). (See Obama pere's published paper here for a good example of his philosophy:

I have made the following prediction before, but as comments in the blogosphere don't have a very long shelf-life I will make it again: I predict that following some not overly long period after Obama leaves office, he will publicly and formally convert to Islam.

My prediction has nothing, or at least very little, to do with the "tin foil hat" claims that Obama is a "secret Muslim" or things like that.

Rather, I believe such a move fits in with, and will further, his personal mission, which is essentially a mission to undermine and transform Western / White society. He does not identify with Western / white civilization as he himself is on record as saying (during a trip to Europe recounted in Dreams of My Father, he stated that there was nothing there he could identify with). And he has spent his life playing this out: raised by whites, he nevertheless cleaved to Black racialist views and was drawn to the part of society that did not simply embrace Black identity; it rejected white identify (Jeremiah Wright, etc.) To the extent that he was "in" with any whites, it was always in furtherance of anti-white / mainstream society: Bill Ayers, ACORN, etc.

A conversion to Islam would be a powerful political statement that would help to tie Western civilization (the [former] President of the United States) to Islam, and enable Obama to use all of the admiration he currently receives from Western elites and ordinary people to shift the winds towards that direction.

By waiting until after his term in office, he would be able to frame it in purely personal terms and play down the obvious political implications: "After a period of meditation and reflection following my time in office, I have come to find my true spiritual home in the faith of my father" etc etc etc.

As the conflict between Islam and the West exacerbates, Obama's move could have a strong psychological effect among weak and politically correct whites, who would be able to find comfort and solace (and no small degree of rationalization) in accepting the Islamization of society and perhaps their own eventual conversion.

(comment continues below)

Remnant said...

(comment continued from above)

Aside from furthering his actual political project of undermining and transforming Western / white society, there is another, more personal reason why I think Obama will be attracted to this path of action: namely, the furtherance of the other key project in his life: self-promotion and careerism.

When Obama leaves office, he will want to keep the adulation and worship coming. While all ex-presidents manage to do this to some extent, Obama will want to carve out his own space. Gore (I know, a VP) had global warming, Clinton had his foundations, Davos and the very high-end lecture circuit. Obviously, Obama will have immediate access to the Davos crowd and the lecture circuit but that will not be enough; it will seem derivative, predictable and too old hat.

A conversion to Islam will bring a renewed focus on him personally as a visionary and transformative figure. It would be very powerful in pushing away people like Clinton, and making HIM (Clinton) seem like old hat.

A third reason why I think this is plausible is that Obama DOES in fact have family and possibly psychological ties to Islam. This would make such a move by him feel, somehow, right and proper and not forced and artificial. And I would actually agree with this: it would seem proper. Many people who have been very secular or alienated from their native faith often return to it later in life. Were Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton to pull such a move, it would come off as absurd and unnatural. And in fact, much of the American black Muslin community does have such a farcical and costume-like element to it. Black American culture is far too tightly connected to Christianity, and any move to embrace a faith such as Islam has a "trying too hard" aspect to it that is hard to hide.

In Obama's case, due to his unique background, I don't think this would apply, and his conversion would seem relatively natural. You can say that this third reason is similar to the "secret Muslim" claims popular among some parts of the conspiratorial right. But I am not arguing that Obama currently is, or truly identifies as, a Muslim; rather his background and psyche make such a conversion more likely and, should it happen, more believable.

So, he could further both of his favorite goals with one move: undermine Western society and promote brand Obama. All with something that will seem as natural as anything could be.

Remnant said...

One other separate but related thought on the idea of Obama converting to Islam:

If such a thing does occur, you can be certain that the same group of people who were screaming "racist!" and "conspiracy theorist!" and "ignoramuses!" at people who previously noted that Obama had Muslim sympathies, a Muslim identity or that he is a Muslim, will then be exclaiming "how wonderful!" "how magnanimus and visionary Obama is!" etc etc. while ignoring those prescient people

Granted, as I myself noted in the previous comment, there is a distintion between claiming that Obama is and has always identified as a Muslim and his eventual conversion. But the point remains that those who were merely focusing on obvious facts - Obama's father and step-father were Muslim, he lived in Muslim countries, he said the Muslim call to prayer is the most beautiful sound in the world - were onto something, and those who would then refuse to admit that such people were correct are trying to ignore those facts and in effect rewrite history.

It's similar to when a Pat Buchanan or someone like that says "By 2040, America will no longer be a majority white country." People called him racist and worse. Then, when his prediction comes true, or is seen to be obviously coming down the road due to current birth demographics, people will CELEBRATE that fact without acknowledging that Buchanan was right or admitting that they were wrong.

Because it doesn't come down to facts for those people: it comes down to whether you are showing the correct attitude.

Saying "we are becoming non-white" with horror will have you labeled an evil person AND WRONG.

Saying "we are becoming non-white" with glee (and schadenfreude) and you are a good person AND RIGHT.

Same thing will happen when Obama converts. Count on it.

Remnant said...

Coincidentally, Half Sigma has a post on Obama as an atheist.

This reminded me that I forgot to add to my comments above that I don't think Obama has a spiritual bone in his body. I think religion is a purely social and political thing for him.

Steven said...

If the president is left wing and in some way socialist, why doesn't he just admit it? He should stand by what he believes in. I doubt he's actually a hardcore socialist who he wants to nationalise all industry and production.

There's nothing special about leftists having a critical view of American history and foreign policy. Its the standard leftist mentality.

It too simplistic to say that means he is anti-American or he doesn't value many things about America or love America overall, whatever it is to him. Just like the whole talk about socialism in America is simplistic in a way. In the American mind, anything socialist is bad and un-American and bound to bring destruction. End of conversation.

John Craig said...

Remnant --
Thank you for the long, thoughtful comment. I'll get back to you later today.

John Craig said...

Steven --
The reason Obama doesn't admit how leftist he is is because he knows he never would have been elected that way. His entire campaign, his entire administration, even his autobiographies, are based on half truths and outright lies.

I agree, Giuliani's criticism about love of country was misguided; he should have been more specific. Very few people love their country, whatever that means, as much as they claim.

And yes, the talk about socialism can be over simplistic, but generally it refers to how far Left someone leans.

John Craig said...

Remnant --
Yes, Obama's mother was a strong influence too. I didn't mention her because while she gave off leftist vibes, she was more of a general flake than an overtly political animal. But yes, she definitely leaned left. I didn't mention his father because his father really had no direct influence on him, as they had very little contact. But, i suppose that psychologically he must have exerted some influence.

I agree that Obama is a Muslim sympathizer. He couldn't have grown up as he did, attending Muslim school in Indonesia, and knowing his father was muslim, without having those sympathies. And his refusal to characterize the current terrorism as Islamic in origin has gone well past the point of absurdity.

But I don't think he's actually going to convert to Islam himself for several reasons. First, I think he will be mindful of his legacy, and converting to Islam will mark him as more of an outsider in this country. I don't think it would tie Western civilization to Islam, it would merely make Obama look like more of a fringe guy.

Second, I don't see him as a particularly religious guy, and praying to Mecca five times a day when he could be playing golf is not a lifestyle switch he wants to make.

And third, doesn't Islam forbid homosexuality? (I"m not sure, but judging from ISIS's actions, I'm guessing it does.) I think Obama is gay, and that word of that will seep out more once the media has less incentive to protect him. That would also conflict with a conversion to Islam: Obama doesn't want to ally himself with the medieval world of ISIS so much as he wants to keep frolicking with his male playmates.

I agree completely with you about Obama's mission to undermine and transform Western/white society. He and Jeremiah Wright are very simpatico, despite Obama's ridiculous statement in 2008 that "this is not the Jeremiah Wright that I know."

Again, thank you for your long and thoughtful comment. If Obama DOES convert in a few years, and I'm still writing this blog, I'll make a post out of your comment, with attribution. (And if I don't please remind me.)

Steven said...

I may be completely off the mark here, but I was surprised when Obama said he believed in God. I always somehow got the impression he was an atheist type. When I heard he believed in God and called people to pray, I didn't quite believe it and wondered if he was playing to a religious public.

Secondly, its the standard line of western politicians that Islamic terrorism is a perversion of Islam. Obama is nothing special in that regard. I think they a) don't want to demonise ordinary Muslims b) don't want to alienate them because they vote and c) don't want to encourage moderate Muslims to see extremism as a valid possibility if they are fighting extremism.

Sometimes I think their pronouncements aren't just political correctness but a strategic decision.
If you say extremists/radicals are making a literal, logical, comprehensive interpretation of the Koran, then ordinary Muslims might hear that and be pushed towards extremism. 'oh this is Islam, this is what we're supposed to be doing if we're devout'. That not something you want to b encouraging.

I myself am attracted to honesty and think its better to get things out in the open and deal with them but I can see an argument for that official stance in the fight against extremism.

The problem with that is that it prevents a serious conversation about Muslim immigration to the west.

John Craig said...

Steven --
I agree, Obama strikes me as non-religious at his core. And his statement that he believed in God was basically what he had to say to get elected. There are too many strongly religious people who would simply not vote for someone who admitted that he was an atheist.

And yes, all this claptrap about how ISIS is not an Islamic organization is complete hogwash. It's islamic through and through.

Expecting honesty from politicians, especially Obama, is the height of naiveté.

Steven said...

Yes I think all the presidents say they believe in God so even if its not true he would have had to say it to get elected.

In Britain, its not much of an issue. I'm guessing the main opposition leader is an atheist but I don't know because I've never seen it raised. It would largely be considered a private matter.

Mark Caplan said...

There was a non sequitar in Giuliani's charge in that you can love your country AND be a communist. Surely some of the millions of Russian soldiers who died fighting the Nazis were communists and also heroically fighting for the Motherland.

At one time, it was taken for granted that Americans loved their country and would fight to defend it. But as Obama turns America into a hodgepodge of jostling Third World tribal regions, I can't see why anyone would willingly risk his life for it. I'm not even sure what "it" is.

John Craig said...

Mark --
Exactly, which is what makes the concept of patriotism, especially in this era. somewhat meaningless.

Remnant said...

John Craig,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. A few additional thoughts in response to your counter-reasons.

1. Legacy: not wanting to be an outsider.

This is a very strong point, and I expect Obama would weigh the costs and benefits as well as keep his finger in the air as to where public sentiment and the limits of acceptability lie in making such a decision.

My view is that there has been a general acceleration of radical views and an acceleration of the denunciation of normality. By acceleration, I am referring to a tendency in contemporary society for political and social views to shift "progressive" at an every faster pace. Thus, the views of a Grover Cleveland, for example (and sticking just to presidents) would not have seemed outlandish to a George Washington; and the views of an Eisenhower would probably not have seemed outlandish to a Cleveland. Once we move into the 60's this all changes and it continues to increase in pace: Kennedy seems like a tremendous leap from Eisenhower, yet if they were both alive today they would consider themselves much closer in views than they did at the time were they to look at Obama.

Then when you reach the Clinton era and beyond things just take off: no president prior to Clinton even had a public position on gay marriage; it was simply off the radar screen. By Obama's time, he actually had to shift his own view in order to stay current. And were he to take today the view he held not five years ago, he would be considered a reactionary pariah.

This is just one illustration to make the point that society is accepting, and even DEMANDING the acceptance of, outlandish views at an every faster pace.

Thus I could imagine Obama's conversion not only not batting any eyebrows but eliciting "what's wrong with that?" and "you go girl!!" type of responses. Not because people love Islam but because they have been programmed to be "tolerant" and celebratory of odd views.

Given Obama's legitimate connection to Islam, I'm not sure that he would see the move, or expect others to see the move, as making him into an outsider or weirdo in their views. He crossed that bridge in 2008.

Moreover, in terms of legacy, for the same reason I described above about acceleration, Obama may need some additional "oomph" factor to retain and enhance his legacy. Think of how such former liberal / progressive icons as Kennedy, LBJ and even Clinton quickly become "reactionary racist white men". Obviously that is not Obama's concern, but the point is that even being the first Black president may not be enough with icons such as MLK hanging over his head.

2. He's not really religious

I totally agree, as I noted above. But, as I also said, religion for him has never been about belief; it has been about sticking it to whitey and promoting brand Obama. In this day and age, particularly for liberals, expressing your bona fides is all that is required; actually doing something doesn't matter all that much. So I doubt conversion would affect his golf schedule; maybe he would insist on teeing off towards Mecca.

3. He's gay.

This is one of your more interesting theories that I am not convinced of yet. And again, his goals being political and narcissistic, I'm not sure this would be an obstacle. It does bring to the fore what Steve Sailer often describes as the uneasy and fragile alliance that is the current Democratic identity.

Anyway, if my prediction does pan out, I am happy to be credited with it in a future blog post, and to reap all of the fame, renown and riches that will no doubt flow from it.

John Craig said...

Remnant --
I agree that the pace of social change has accelerated in recent decades. But keep in mind, by converting, Obama would be allying himself with the only religion which has a substantial following which ways to go back to the 7th century.

He would be allying himself with a religion which, in many instances, does not allow women to go to school, insists that they cover their faces, and doesn't allow them to leave their houses without permission from a husband or brother. Sometimes Muslims even cut the clits off their own daughters.

How does that square with the life of Julia? How does that square with his self image of himself as a modern, enlightened man? This would represent a backward "pace of change" that would be breathtaking, and the opposite of much of what he wants to stand for.

As far as his being gay, if you look at his life before he got married, there is an absolute, complete lack of girlfriends, which makes no sense until you consider the possibility that he is gay. And there does seem to be somewhat of a track record of him being with other men. The Muslims would not approve.

As far as the riches and fame my acknowledgement would bring you….I'm afraid they would equal the riches and fame I have gotten from this blog. Which is to say, zero. (Go ahead and make fun of me.)

Anonymous said...

A friend and I occasionally talk about our President, believing that he is a deceitful man, having his own agenda for country (I suspect possibly bringing in a New World Order). Like me, she doesn't trust mainstream media, looking into what other media outlets have to say about the issues in our country/world. President Obama is not a deeply spiritual man (definitely appearing to be a Muslim sympathizer). There are plenty of people who attend church, synagogue, etc. who see these places as "social clubs," not really experiencing the true purposes of them, getting closer to your chosen deity (a/k/a God, in my case). I don't trust President Obama - he has an agenda and he's carrying it out.

- Susan

John Craig said...

Susan --
You're absolutely right about Obama. He's deceitful in the extreme, and has been ever since he ran for the Presidency in '08. Saul Alinsky would be proud.