He gave me several examples, with specifics, of people who only knew his wife as a passing acquaintance, and in a couple cases actively avoided her. Yet now that she's dying they act as if they had been great friends. Even when my friend -- and his wife -- demur, they insist on coming to visit her at the hospital.
As he told me about this, I couldn't help but think of Ted Bundy working that suicide hotline so he could savor the pain of the suicidal while simultaneously burnishing his credentials for niceness.
Obviously none of the people my friend described are serial killers. But some of them may, at a certain level, be savoring her pain in a ghoulish way -- whether or not they're even aware that that's what they're doing.
Obviously none of the people my friend described are serial killers. But some of them may, at a certain level, be savoring her pain in a ghoulish way -- whether or not they're even aware that that's what they're doing.
If anyone suggested this to them, they would probably get quite angry. But sometimes people aren't even fully aware of their own motivations. I'd guess they all tell themselves they're being helpful in someone's time of need. But dig a little deeper and their motivations may be more complex.
And when you've actively avoided someone, to act as if you were her close friend when she's dying shows, at the very least, a lot of dishonesty.
It's possible that some of these people genuinely want to help.
It's possible.
But when someone hasn't been in touch for, say, six years or more, and then comes barging back into your life and insists on taking center stage, even when it's been made clear that their help is really not wanted, something's amiss.
It was all the more frustrating for my friend to deal with them since he has to remain polite and thankful to them, since they are, after all, ostensibly being helpful.
It was all the more frustrating for my friend to deal with them since he has to remain polite and thankful to them, since they are, after all, ostensibly being helpful.
My friend never used the word "ghoul" while describing these people. (He referred to their behavior as "virtue signaling," which is also a good description of what it is.)
But listening to him, I couldn't help but get the impression that what some of them really wanted was a ringside seat to his wife's gradual death.
But listening to him, I couldn't help but get the impression that what some of them really wanted was a ringside seat to his wife's gradual death.
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I did the opposite when my grandparents were dying. I loved them, but refused to see them in hospital because I wanted to preserve the good memories of them, and not spoil those by seeing them all ill and suffering (plus, my grandfather had Alzheimer's and wouldn't have recognised me, which would've been painful for me). I'm not sure I made the right decision, and have been thinking for years that I was selfish. Having read your post, maybe my selfishness was less bad than I thought; at least my motive was decent.
- Gethin
Gethin --
In a case like that, I think I'd leave it up to my grandparents. If they wanted to see me, I'd go; if not, I wouldn't. You're right, though, if they wouldn't recognize you, what's the point?
That said, I'd add that grandparents are completely different from friends you aren't close to. I think the default assumption with grandparents is that they'd want to see their relatives; with friends, not necessarily. As far as "friends" who've avoided you before that, the default assumption is not.
I don't understand why these non-friends desire to be in the sick woman's life. They definitely are insensitive to her feelings, well-being. To me, it's craziness. I think in the end, if you don't want the fake people around, straight out tell them. Life is too short for nonsense.
- Susan
Susan --
I may be overemphasizing the ghoulish facet of their motivation, maybe some of them are just taking the opportunity to show what wonderful caring people they are, to virtue signal as my friend put it. I don't know.
(Thank you Sherie.)
I had a former friend who had cancer (our kids were pals). After my family and I moved from our neighborhood, we lost touch. I heard through the grapevine that she had cancer. Since we weren't close, I didn't reach out to her. After she passed, I mailed a sympathy card to her husband. I feel somewhat guilty about not having reached out to her, but I question how helpful I would have been toward her.
- Susan
Susan --
If you weren't close to her, why feel guilty? There's no reason, I'd think that at that point they would just want to be with their family and maybe a few close friends.
I got to know her because of our kids. She wasn't someone whom I would normally be drawn to. Through knowing her, I met one of my closest friends, someone who has been a tremendous support in my life. Anyway, when I think about her, I do miss her, being saddened by her passing.
Not really the topic but I do tell folks from time to time that when they say they don't understand people (usually referring to bad people - sociopaths) that they're trying to understand a person without morals as if they had some. Trying to understand someone's motives cam be difficult. Maybe a person is making up for their own shortcomings in a previous similar situation where they did the opposite and felt guilt over it. Who knows. But it doesn't help your friends situation.
Dave
Not Dave --
I agree, you have to have had some personal experience with a sociopath before you can understand them. I'm consent amazed by the naivete of people who'll say something like, "Oh, I'd rather he be given life in prison [rather than the death penalty], because that way he'll have to live with himself and think about this crimes."
I usually say something to the effect of, "Do you really think that would bother a guy like that? He won't feel bad about what he's done in the least." But I know what Im saying is falling on deaf ears.
It is possible that some of the people my friend was referring to felt guilty and have been trying to make amends. It doesn't sound as if they're sociopaths. But the sudden friendliness at the last moment struck my friend as virtue signaling, and me as somewhat suspicious.
An old family member use to have a saying for it -“Delight in someone’s plight” - don’t know if they coined the phrase but it always stuck with me.
GT --
I think we all feel schadenfreude, that's a universal human trait, and I've seen it in people far more noble than me. But pretending to have been better friends with someone than one was in order to be present when they die takes it to a new level. Again, I'm guessing these people are telling themselves that they're helping, and as far as that goes, fine. But I'm also guessing there's more to it than that.
It may suggest an element of guilt over allowing the friendship to fall off, but it also may be that they secretly enjoy showing the invalid that she is now in a weak position, especially if in former times the visitor was in a socially or professionally inferior position. It may be ghoulish or it may be gloating.
On a more charitable note, I have many acquaintances with whom I have lost touch and might not know where they are if I didn’t hear some news about them. If I knew they were terminal I certainly would be moved to make a greater effort to see them before it was too late.
LBD --
Yes, it could be all those things. But I was pretty much taking my cue from my friend, who was pretty angry with some of those people, and didn't make it sound at all as if they had just lost touch; some had actually actively avoided her and excluded her from their activities.
I've certainly lost touch with far, far more people than I've kept in touch with. And honestly, most will probably die without my hearing about it, until possibly much later. Would I be moved to see some of those people if I knew the were terminal? I suppose it would depend on how close I'd ever felt to them, and whether they wanted me to.
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