Aspergers Syndrome -- the name for the mildest of the autism spectrum of disorders -- may be overdiagnosed these days. (Children with Aspergers are given extra time in school to finish their tests, and some parents will do anything to give their child a leg up.) But that doesn't mean the syndrome doesn't exist. This post will describe some of the symptoms. If you know people who exhibit these symptoms, understanding Aspergers will help you understand them.
The trait mostly widely associated with various sorts of autism is an inability to read other people. I don't know how -- or why -- the brain would get rewired so that someone becomes incapable of interpreting others' actions, but people with Aspergers have little insight into others. If you know someone who seems to have no clue about how others think, this could means Aspergers.
In my experience, people with Aspergers try to compensate by acting as if they know things they don't, especially about people. And they try to act as if they are in on the joke. When they see everyone else laugh, they will laugh along to show that they too are in on the humor.
This is what people with Aspergers generally do: try to pass as normal. But no one can keep such an act up forever, and when you get to really know them, their autism is unmistakable.
An autistic's inability to predict other party's feelings, thoughts, or reactions will result in frequent social faux pas. I knew one guy with Aspergers who worked in an office. When he would make an awkward attempt at a joke, his polite assistants would smile. The others would look away. The word people with Aspergers often get labeled with is lame. This often applies to their senses of humor, their excuses, and their personalities.
People with Aspergers tend to be somewhat asocial. They are uncomfortable at parties, and often become panicky in social situations. They rarely keep in touch with others over the long term. And most of their "friendships" are often institutionally based.
The traits most commonly associated with Aspergers are lack of insight and being asocial, but there are a host of other symptoms that go hand in hand with these. People with Aspergers hate having their routines disrupted. If you ask them something, they will respond by saying things like, "Uh, your timing is off!" or, "I'm doing something!"
They have a hard time dealing with criticism. They are similar to narcissistic personalities in that any criticism immediately fills them with rage. You can give them the gentlest, most constructive criticism, and they might respond by screaming, "Who are you to be telling me that I'm doing it wrong?!" And, as with narcissists, every time an Aspie errs, it's always somebody else's fault.
Or they may simply deny their errors. If an Aspie says something like, "Uh, you know, there was more freedom in the Soviet Union than there is in the US," and you point out why that statement is misguided, they may later simply deny ever having said it. I've seen Aspies deny having said something within a minute of having said it. Most people would be embarrassed to do this; but Aspies simply stonewall, sometimes without even realizing what they're doing.
And because autistics can never admit they're wrong, you will almost never hear them apologize.
People with Aspergers have a hard time identifying with other groups. A woman with Aspergers, for instance, might always stick up for women over men, no matter the circumstance, simply because she is a woman. Ironically, this is often the same type of woman who accuses men of being sexist. This might appear garden variety hypocrisy. But when it's exhibited by an Aspie, it is simply an outgrowth of their complete inability to see things from another point of view. (Which, when you think of it, is also not that dissimilar from ordinary narcissism.)
I knew one such woman with Aspergers who would scathingly refer to men as "pricks," but if anyone ever used the word "bitch," she would huff, "Uh, you know, that's a really gender-loaded word," or alternatively -- and awkwardly -- "You're insulting my sex!"
People with Aspergers are more likely to throw back accusations at the accuser, no matter how ridiculous that makes them sound. For instance, if Mike Tyson were to say, "You're a wimpy little white boy," an Aspie might respond, "No, you're a wimpy little white boy." (That's an exaggeration, but you get the idea.) A better example might be, if they're told they have Aspergers, they then tell the accuser that he has Aspergers, even if he has no symptoms.
People with Aspergers will often develop a reputation for having no common sense. (By definition, they also don't have enough common sense to realize that they have no common sense.)
They tend to have poor fine motor coordination. So they won't be good at things like typing, or dipping a knife into a honey jar and then twirling the knife so that the honey doesn't drip down the side of the jar. They are also more likely to get into minor fender benders.
They are rigid in their thinking, to the point where they must ignore facts. They generally only willingly expose themselves to one viewpoint. If you quote a fact which conflicts with their viewpoint, they may respond by saying something along the lines of, "Uh, what's your source on that?" or "You know, one person's reality is another person's fiction." Sources can certainly err, and some fields do involve perception. But an Aspie will hide behind statements like these all the time, even when a source is unimpeachable and a fact has no subjective element.
It was probably someone with Aspergers who inspired the saying, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own set of facts."
People with Aspergers tend to be germ phobic, and have other symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder.
They dislike bright lights and loud noises more than most.
They have a tendency to mangle words (e.g., "buxmous" rather than "buxom" and "insiduous" rather than "insidious").
People with Aspergers often have an intense focus on one interest; they may be fascinated by something like trains, or buses. Those people you read about who are fascinated by trains and who will pretend to be conductors just so they can take them for joyrides are usually autistic (They usually have a more serious form of autism than just Aspergers.) Likewise, every now and then you'll read about someone who just takes a city bus out for a spin. These people don't have evil intentions: they don't want to hurt anybody, or actually steal the bus. They are simply completely and utterly fascinated by the big moving vehicles.
As a result of their narrow focus, Aspies frequently use non sequiturs. No matter the subject being discussed, they will just start talking about whatever their interest is.
People with Aspergers tend to be very literal. For instance, they may think that sailfish just swim around on the surface of the ocean, getting propulsion from their giant dorsal fins via the wind. Because, after all, they are sailfish. When someone uses a metaphor, they may take it literally. (This is partly why they tend not to get jokes.)
Because all of these traits can obviously result in an inability to get along with others, people with Aspergers often prefer the company of animals to humans. (Pets never disagree with them, or criticize them, or laugh at them. And their pets need them, and give them uncritical love.)
John Lucas and Scott Moore, who wrote the script for The Hangover, understood autistics perfectly. The Zach Galafianakis character is the brother of the girl that the Justin Bartha character is going to marry. At the beginning of the movie she thanks Justin for bringing her brother to Las Vegas with him for his bachelor party, and he reflexively replies, no problem, Zach is cool. The girl says no, Zach is not cool. We see little hints of Zach's personality early on. He says things that don't quite make sense. At one point, as they check into Caesar's Palace, he asks if Caesar slept there. The others look at each other, then ignore the comment and move on. Zach gradually grows more and more annoying with his malapropisms and inappropriate reactions and insistence that he is right, to the point of being infuriating. In the movie, he eventually he redeems himself by counting cards, the type of thing an autistic is more likely to be able to do, and after their adventure everybody ends up friends. (In real life, the other three would have put some distance between themselves and Zach as soon as it was decently possible to do so.)
Lucas and Moore had to have known someone who was autistic in their lives; the Galafianakis character was just too well drawn to for them not to have personal familiarity with the syndrome. Bear in mind, not all people with Aspergers look like Zach Galafianakis. Some can be beautiful women, whose beauty may initially blind you to their lameness. The interesting thing, as with any syndrome, is to see all the little behaviors that betray that syndrome.
Galafianakis pretty much reprised that role in Due Date, a buddy movie he made with Robert Downey. There he showed the same exasperating inappropriate behavior, lack of common sense, and all-around cluelessness, this time employed in the service of driving Downey to distraction.
Autistics are far more likely to join a cult, or become immersed in a system of thinking which becomes a substitute for any personal sense of judgment. They feel far more comfortable when they can view everything from the perspective of a rigid ideology. They are more likely to join the military, with its rigid hierarchy and rules. Or they may become immersed in an all-consuming religion, perhaps one with rigid and restrictive rules regarding every aspect of personal behavior -- and which disapproves strongly of nonbelievers. Or they subscribe with an almost religious zeal to a particular school of thought like Marxism. All of these ideologies, or systems, or structures, are a substitute for having to think on their own.
Aspies are not bad people; they're not sociopaths. We should never hold anyone responsible for anything beyond their control; and nobody chose to have Aspergers. But if you have constant exposure to them, or are responsible for them in any way, they are inevitably infuriating. If you've been around one for any length of time, the phrase "willfully obtuse" will undoubtedly come to mind. Most people you can talk some sense into, but people with Aspergers are so rigid in their thinking there's never any budging them.
In any loosely knit social group, you'll see that people tend to gravitate away from those with the syndrome. People with Aspergers may be stiffly polite (what they think of as "social skills"), since the give and take of normal banter is beyond them. If you know someone who seems to make a great effort to remember all the social niceties, but does so in somewhat robotic fashion, think Aspergers. If that person seems lost if he has to go off-script, you can be surer of that diagnosis.
One of the problems with Aspergers is that it is impossible to self-diagnose. Sociopaths, when they get older, generally come to the realization that they're sociopaths. Neurotics certainly know they're neurotic, depressives know they're depressed, and everybody is aware of their own sexual peculiarities. But if you're clueless about human nature, how can you possibly realize that others are not equally so?
One thing people with Aspergers do have in common with normal people is that the accusations they level most frequently often reflect their own weaknesses. They'll say things along the lines of, "You're so far out of it you don't even realize you're out of it." Or, "You just don't get it, do you?" Or they'll call someone a jackass.
All perfect descriptions of Aspergers Syndrome.
Addendum, 3/11/13: If you found this post via Google, you might find this post on whether or not Aspies are responsible for their own behavior interesting. Or this one, on whether Aspies span the full range of morality.
Addendum, 1/7/14: As you can see below, this post has attracted a slew of comments. A few are from people who've dealt with Aspies and who agree with me, but most are from outraged Aspies -- or their relatives -- who can't believe how insensitive I am. They are welcome to use this forum the same way I sometimes do -- to vent. I will post their comments. But I don't have the energy or inclination to respond to all of them, especially since I've long since found myself saying the same things over and over. So please feel free to tell me what a horrible person I am; just don't expect a response.
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703 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 703 Newer› Newest»M --
Thank YOU. It seems a lot of people who've dealt with them need to do some venting.
Ok, I read every word of your post. It was the most amazing laundry list of generalizations I think I've ever seen. Your message came across as *this is what ALL Aspies are like* when we are as different from one another as we are from NTs. Certainly, SOME Aspies have SOME of those traits. And a whole lot of NTs have some of those traits, as well.
You failed to mention any of the positive traits found in Aspergers, as if there are none. You also failed to mention that we are capable of learning coping skills that translate to social skills. Even though we may not have the feelings or insight to back them up, we can exhibit some social skills to get us through interactions on the short term. I.e., when I am engaged in a conversation with someone, I remind myself to ask about the other person and show empathy/sympathy for what they're going through, even if I feel completely detached from them or what they're saying. This does not come naturally to me, I have to work at it, just as I work on so many other aspects of being an Aspie. I may not be able to change what's going on on the inside, but I can change how that presents itself on the outside, at least to a degree.
There are some things in your post that are just plain wrong. The most glaring example is that Aspies cannot, by definition, self diagnose. Perhaps someone who is at the severe level might not, but a quick trip through any Aspie forum will show you just how wrong that statement is. In fact, you might want to spend some time in those forums and educate yourself beyond what you perceive from knowing a few Aspies, especially before you write another piece such as this one. You know how NTs are embarrassed for Aspies when they say inappropriate things? I'm embarrassed for you right now, in just the same way.
To answer why you might write this post unless you'd had some personal experience, I would say the key word in that reply was *some*. What it reads like is venting because these people annoy, irritate, infuriate, etc., you and you'd just like to warn others to steer clear of the *problem*. That basically, those with Aspergers are another multi-syllable word that starts with an A. Ok, fair enough, but we have Aspergers. What's your excuse?
I have an Aspergers friend and trying to maintain friendship with him is increasingly difficult.
One thing peculiar about my Aspergers friend is that he will always, always, only reply to the first message you ever sent him. It is like if you try to keep in touch or have a conversation, he would only reply to the first one to show that he is still alive. And then never again.
He also rarely ask about your life, if he does, it is obvious he is not showing a real interest as he is not even listening.
Lastly, he will always say that he appreciate your friendship when you are helping him to get through hardship in life, but when you ask anything out of his slightest inconvenience, it is met with irritation. He also does not understand why you are even slightly offended by his unreasonable attitude.
Eventually I had to stop trying to maintain this friendship as it is purely frustrating!
Anon --
(You were the 200th comment on this post!)
I've never noticed the first message thing you're describing, but i've definitely noticed that if they ask you a question, they won't really pay attention to your answer. Often they'll ask you a question right afterward which indicates that your reply didn't even register.
And yes, they do hate to be inconvenienced.
My ex partner was the same. Never wrong, no matter how ludicrous his excuses were, flew off the handle at even minor criticism, called me some appalling things for reasons that only existed in his head and in the end became violent because he couldn't stand being confronted, best thing I ever did was get out, hope you found the strength to too.
John;
(I am the 200th)
I found that my Aspie friend wasn't really interested in any answer I had to give, as he seem to ask out of politeness (his "learnt behavior") to include my response in the convo but truly the answer didn't stay for more than one sec in his head.
Also he never seem to care about what happens in other people's lives, its merely facts to him rather than something he should pay attention even if it is for the closed ones. I don't know if there is any point continuing the friendship with someone that just does not genuinely care about other people. Funnily, he is very interested in charity and community work to "care" for the disabled! Just NOT his closed ones.
200th:
You've described one perfectly. I've had the exact same experience. I know one who asks questions, but never seems to listen to the answers; I too think that the asking of the questions is pro forma and something she was taught that she should do, not something she has any interest in. And she too is involved in public "noblesse oblige" type work, but has little interest in individual people, in whom she shows zero insight.
John Craig... You may be the most disgusting ignorant human being I've ever seen. Are you homophobic as well? Cuz you seem like the type. You're definitely aspiephobic.
Alot of what you say is just complete judgemental nonsense, that has absolutely nothing to do with the diagnosis.
People like Albert Einstein and Charles Darwin were believed to have aspergers syndrome. How do you think the world would be without people with aspergers?
I have no clue what drove you to write this.. Judgementalness? Hate?... Or simply just a lack of intelligence.
Even though you anger me, you're merely an annoyance.
The problem here isn't aspies.. But people like you.
You show a complete lack of understanding autistic people, and you're extremely judging against those who struggle.. You're just down rigth arrogant, a disgrace!
Your knowledge within the subject, and your attempts to prove that you're rigth are just laughable.
Still can't tell if you're just evil.. Or stupid.
Anon --
How about we compromise and say I'm both evil AND stupid?
John;
I think certain comments to this blog has raised a point to your other post:
I think Aspies (or NTs, just to clarify I am not being biased) should be responsible for their behavior. Having any form of disease doesn't excuse its negative effect on other people. And, we can only cater to them with compassion PROVIDED that we are not hurt by their actions.
Anon --
Thank you, but I'm actually of two minds about that. It's obvious from the comments on this post that they basically can't help themselves, they have to be what they are. On the other hand, their personalities can be quite hard to take, especially when they're being hypocritical. So…..where does that leave us? I'm honestly not sure.
I dated someone with asperger and I am adhd myself. Talk about opposites! Needless to say it didn't go anywhere. I absolutely hated that rigidity that was protrayed, I see everything with many possibilities and can get overwhelmed with all those variables. He couldn't see any fluidity or possibilities in anything. And OCD, well that existed to an extreme and if it wasn't so extreme then it would be easy to deal with. I express emotions, interests, thoughts on just about anything easily and many times metaphorically which he just had no grasp of and sometimes seemed to give him an overload even when quickly said and to the point. He was very pessimistic and even said that he admired how I found even minor positives in negative things that would happen. I talk a lot about about many things, when he actually would speak a lot, I tended to be bored out of my mind and wanting to impatiently pull my hair out, lol. He speak a lot, but only about one thing! And try to change the topic, well, in short, that's not gonna happen.
Things said that weren't bad things nor directed at him just part of all the stuff that comes out of my mouth when I get my moments of excitement, he would take those things as personal attacks. I wonder if aspies are so touchy because of maybe life experiences and reactions from people as they were growing up. They deflect and reroute blame so much that it makes me wonder if many of them have underlying issues indirectly related to aspergers due to messing up a lot and being told they are stupid or something. We all have something, but not all aspergers could be this way, so it makes me wonder. But, with that said, it is headache inducing as it happens more than just every now amd then (all humans do that but not that much!.)
When watching him watch tv, he would show the characters more empathy and emotion than he would show me, or anyone else for that matter. That's a head scratcher. Introducing him to friends or acquaintances had to be 1 or 2 at a time or major anxiety would kick in, which didn't bother me, but when he got anxious he would throw a childish tantrum and sometimes treat me like crap after and it can happen over so many things and unpredictably. I wasn't willing to be treated like crap nor deal with childish tantrums that make you not hear any word I say even if I give you plenty of time to calm the hell down, all part of that what I think is right thing and you're wrong not me thing even if you don't say anything about blaming him. I even started researching npd thinking he was aspergers and npd. But I don't think he is after researching it, I just think aspergers men have much in common with it with some of what they do and how they come off. Weird thing is, he didn't show all these traits at first, but as I started seeing him more often, it had started to show more. So, I was peace out.
Seven --
That's a good description of the essential conflict between Aspies and non-Aspies. It's just incredibly frustrating to deal with them. I know it's not their fault, but in the long run, it's better to avoid them.
I was talking to an Aspie and a third person just yesterday. When the non-Aspie made an obvious joke and the Aspie took it literally and started protesting, then saw me looking amused, she started off on me. When I then defended myself, she said, "You know, it's not all about you." And I hadn't been talking about myself at all until I defended myself from her attack; typical Aspie logic and behavior. You have to basically deal with them as temperamental, hypocritical children.
I understand why you'd look up NPD, as they fact the same way to criticism. But they don't have the egos of NPD people, they just have that same inability to take any sort of criticism.
PS -- Pardon my asking, but what was the sex like with an Aspie?
I have dated an Aspie for half a year (I am not the poster above, btw)
There was no sex at all. Just nope nothing. Even hugs were more like cuddling with a ... distant relative.
Took me a while to figure out...
Anon --
I'm surprised you let it go on for six months. You must be very patient.
John:
(I m the poster above)
Took me a while to figure out what was wrong as he didn't disclose his Aspergers. Thought it was religion or some value differences. Then other problems surface and I put the pieces together. It did teach me a lot about this condition, which I knew nothing about before. I must say that the frustration with communication is a lot more profound than the problem with sex, says a lot!
Anon --
Yes it is a difficult learning experience.
I sometimes wish that everybody with a mental disorder (especially sociopathy) or mental illness be required to have that tattooed on their foreheads. That way we could all know whom we were dealing with, and there would be a lot less frustration in the world (except for the sociopaths).
Yeah, it's kind of like the pitbull thing. Some of those dogs seem nice... for a bit. Eventually, they all end up biting you in the crotch. Not that aspies are crotch biters, aybe some are, who the hell knows.
Aspie-diency --
Yes, mental disorders mean relationship trouble, period. I've never experienced otherwise.
Sounds like the author of this article has only a shallow understanding of Aspergers.
Well done for having the patience with that one....absolutely displayed every trait you mentioned there. It was rather fortunate for your article, but I still feel a bit sorry for them. I have a 17 year old son with aspergers...sometimes it's difficult explaining his condition to others who simply don't understand, however your article explains it perfectly and now I can just ask them to read this. Thankyou for your truth and honesty without all the fancy words...It will make my life so much easier now.
regards
nb
I don't understand why it's such a problem that we don't understand you, when you're taking 0 effort to understand us. We have a very deep intricate inner world accommodating for a chaotic outer world. The fact that you can't sympathize with the struggles you know we face makes me question what kind of person you are.
We just have different perceptions that aren't based around socializing. Seeing as you are aware of this, although resentful of it, it stands to reason that you should become part of the solution instead of bitching about what it is about us that annoys you.
I understand that our literal view of things and idiosyncrasies are difficult to deal with, but in the same sense you're no easier for us to deal with. We try our best to assimilate to your world, change every bit of us we can spare to appease you, and NT's just bitch about everything we're doing wrong. Put the shoe on the other foot so to speak. Try taking our view for a day. Maybe you'll understand the frustrations we face. Then again I fear you are truly incapable of empathy towards those of us with Aspergers and would favor a eugenic "solution" to your problem. Not that you said so, but the overall tone of this post is repulsion.
Very possible. ..I am one! Hi, your blog says it all and says it well, I am also the mother of an aspie. Hope that helped x
Can't even read the whole thing, because all you are doing is bitching. And there is a good chance that you have Asperger's. Don't talk about something you don't understand just because you ran into a couple of people that do the things you describe. Or because you hate yourself. And to the parents that comment on this blog and have children or other family members with the syndrome, you should be ashamed of yourselves. You are narrow minded asshole/bitches and you really need to figure out who you are. Sitting behind a computer writing a long ass fucking bitch note about people with Asperger's Syndrome. Dude, you act like a person with AS, so shut the fuck up. This whole thing is just self hate and ignorance.
NB and X --
Thank you.
Chelsea --
You're putting words in my mouth, which is another Aspie trait I've been finding out about recently.
Anon --
Thank you for illustrating several of the points in the post.
You have Asperger's Syndrome. Just say it, you will feel better.
How can you say that all these things you describe are traits of those who have Asperger's Syndrome? I know plenty of people who don't have Asperger's Syndrome that do a lot of the things you describe. So your blog seems like you are talking about yourself and not someone else. Hmm... You should get checked. Or maybe you did, and that is why you wrote this.
It's quite sad how someone can have so much hate for people. You know, that's an Asperger's Syndrome trait. Oh wait, that's just a human trait from someone who is out of touch and hurting and seeking attention in the worst way instead of trying to figure themselves out.
Good luck with your life dude, because you seriously need some help.
A few sweeping generalisms but some of the points you make are true. However not all aspies are the same. In fact no two are identical. so for anyone looking for a starting point on whether someone has AS or if you already no someone and need better understanding you could do worse than this post. As an Aspie myself I didn't find this post offensive and the jist of my behaviour was there despite some serious broad strokes. For example I always apologise for my mistakes.
First off, I don't know who hurt you and why you wrote this long blog. But I will dissect this, since it seems you wrote this out of the whim and possibly a personal experience with one person.
"Aspergers Syndrome -- the name for the mildest of the autism spectrum of disorders -- may be overdiagnosed these days." ... Actually Asperger's Syndrome was a name before Autism came about. Asperger's Syndrome is now apart of the Autistic Spectrum since May 2013. So if you are someone with Asperger's Syndrome, you are just classified as Autistic. And Asperger's Syndrome is a diagnoses that is not over diagnosed, especially in women. Men and women will be diagnosed as having schizophrenic, ADD, ADHD, OCDm dyslexia, bipolar, severely depressed. Having PTSD, anxiety, panic attacks, etc. So no, it's not over diagnosed.
"Children with Aspergers are given extra time in school to finish their tests, and some parents will do anything to give their child a leg up." ... Actually anyone who is falling behind will be given more time to do something and any parent that gives a damn about their child will try to give them a leg up.
"The trait mostly widely associated with various sorts of autism is an inability to read other people." ... They can read people, if they try. But because most people have different intentions behind their smiles, that is when it becomes difficult to read. But it's the neurotypicals that are the ones that like to dissect facial expressions and what it should look like and how the muscles move and what not. Those on the spectrum can actually feel the energy in the room or hear how someone feels by their tone of voice.
"people with Aspergers try to compensate by acting as if they know things they don't, especially about people." ... o.O Umm, you are doing that in this blog.
"And they try to act as if they are in on the joke. When they see everyone else laugh, they will laugh along to show that they too are in on the humor." ... o.O Umm, most people do that.
(CONTINUE)
"This is what people with Aspergers generally do: try to pass as normal." ... Everyone does that, try to pass as "normal." But what the hell is normal? There is no such thing as normal. Only a fool will go around calling themselves normal. We all have our own normal. But it's neurotypicals that drive themselves mad, because they are constantly trying to conform and do the "normal" thing. Why don't you just be yourself and stop trying to be like everyone else. So no, people with Asperger's don't try to pass as "normal." They are trying to cope with idiots who act like they know people. Or they are aware they have oddities, and they don't want their sensory issues to ruin their day. So again, they are trying to cope. And in most cases, because they are trying so hard to cope, they don't get to enjoy their day as much as they would like.
"An autistic's inability to predict other party's feelings, thoughts, or reactions will result in frequent social faux pas. I knew one guy with Aspergers..." ... A good majority can pick up on feelings, thoughts, and reactions. And I know plenty that are really funny, I wonder how... oh because they can pick up on feelings, thoughts, and reactions. You speak of one person in this paragraph, assuming you are telling the truth, that this one person you know has Asperger's. That's one person, don't throw everyone together. Not everyone on the spectrum, especially those with Asperger's are the same.
"People with Aspergers tend to be somewhat asocial. They are uncomfortable at parties, and often become panicky in social situations. They rarely keep in touch with people over the long term. And most of their "friendships" are often institutionally based." ... Uhhh, no no no no no... People with Asperger's are socially awkward yes, but trust me they can party. And friendship is something that most want, so when they feel they have a friendship with someone, they do keep in touch. And again, not everyone is the same. So your assumption is just that, an assumption of one person you know, don't throw everyone together. Not everyone on the spectrum, especially those with Asperger's are the same.
"People with Aspergers hate having their routines disrupted. If you ask them something, they will respond by saying things like, "Uh, your timing is off!" or, "I'm doing something!" ... That doesn't even make sense. I only know of one person that is like that, but most people, in general, don't like to be disrupted or bothered when they are doing something. I know a lot of neurotypicals that act that way, so pretty much I know all kinds of people that act that way. It's natural. That is why most people ask, "hey are you busy, can we talk or can I ask you something?"
(CONTINUE)
"They have a hard time dealing with criticism. They are similar to narcissistic personalities in that any criticism immediately fills them with rage." ... It's not the criticism that they have a hard time with, it's the fact that no one taught some of them a different way. NTs have a hard time with criticisms as well. Like with you for example, you can't defend yourself when you are wrong. All you say is "Thank you for illustrating several of the points in the post." That's kind of a narcissistic trait, don't you think. And anyone who gets criticized will get upset, again a natural thing for humans, especially when you criticize a person based off things you don't like. Or things that don't seem "normal" to you.
"Or they may simply deny their errors. ... And because autistic's can never admit they're wrong, you will almost never hear them apologize." ... Most people do that. You have to be humble enough to admit you are wrong and apologize. Are you humble enough to admit that you're stereotyping is just that, stereotyping and ignorant?
"People with Asperger's have a hard time identifying with other groups." ... Uh, wrong again. MOST people do this, they will identify with what they are and what they like, and not just those on the spectrum. Narrow minded people on the spectrum or not will only see things their way, kind of like you. And that one woman you speak off, again that is one person. Not all women on the spectrum.
"People with Aspergers are more likely to throw back accusations at the accuser, no matter how ridiculous that makes them sound. For instance, if Mike Tyson were to say, "You're a wimpy little white boy," someone with Aspergers might respond, "No, you're a wimpy little white boy." (That's an exaggeration, but you get the idea.) A better example might be, if they're told they have Aspergers, they then tell the accuser that he has Aspergers, even if he has no symptoms." ... That whole thing is just bullshit. Like seriously, that is just complete bullshit. I don't know one person who is on the spectrum that will talk like that, because it's bullshit. But I do know plenty that will come back at you with some of your secrets, if you're not careful. (Then again that is what some people do NT and AS). But in most cases, they won't say anything because that isn't the right thing to do.
(CONTINUE)
"People with Aspergers will often develop a reputation for having no common sense. (By definition, they also don't have enough common sense to realize that they have no common sense.)" ... Word of advice, please take your head out of your ass because the fresh air will do you some good. Your logic makes no sense here either. Common sense is like knowing, left from right ... not everyone knows their left from their right, AS and NT alike.
"They tend to have poor fine motor coordination. So they won't be good at things like typing, or dipping a knife into a honey jar and then twirling the knife so that the honey doesn't drip down the side of the jar. They are also more likely to get into minor fender benders." ... This is just stupid. I am typing right now, most of the people that commented on your bitter, ignorant blog were typing and have AS.
"They are rigid in their thinking, to the point where they must ignore facts. They generally only willingly expose themselves to one viewpoint." ... Actually you are doing that. Sooo unless you have AS, or you are just a person who doesn't know his left from his right. Like what I did their? It's called common sense. People on the spectrum tend to know facts on things they like to study. But if they don't know the facts, they will take it in and accept it. Of course, just like with most people they will look it up for themselves to see if it's true. But there are some that will ignore facts, just like NTs will ignore facts.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own set of facts." ... Daniel Patrick Moynihan said that. He didn't have Asperger's Syndrome. And if he did, then people followed a senate, US ambassador with AS. That means that is someone with AS who can be around people, communicate, and has common sense... huh... *sarcasim if you can't tell*
(CONTINUE)
"People with Aspergers tend to be germ phobic, and have other symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder. They dislike bright lights and loud noises more than most. They have a tendency to mangle words (e.g., "buxmous" rather than "buxom" and "insiduous" rather than "insidious")." ... Not everyone on the spectrum is like that. Even NTs are like that you lonely sad bitter man.
"People with Aspergers often have an intense focus on one interest" ... At least those on the spectrum who only have one interest, can make a great career for themselves. What about you? You really gonna sit here and read this and tell me you don't have one interest that you are focused on? Or are you a brainwashed NT (even though I think you are a self hating person with AS), who will only work a shitty, dead end job, living pay check to pay check? Or will you try to focus on that one interest you have so that you can get into your career field and further it??? THINK dammit!
"As a result of their narrow focus, people with Aspergers frequently use non sequiturs. No matter the subject being discussed, they will just start talking about whatever their interest is." ... Because NTs talking about bullshit all day long, why would we be interested in talking about those things. A quote I like, "Dumb people talk about people. Average people talk about events. Intelligent people talk about ideas." You love talking about people, don't you? I mean, I read some of your blogs, you really love talking about people. And adding in your two cents to everything. Quite bitter, sad and lonely.
"People with Aspergers tend to be very literal." ... LOL Actually from what I have noticed, both can be just as equally literal about things. Especially NTs. It's quite funny. I know more NTs that are very literal and take things for what they are, instead of thinking about the situations or whatever. And that joke, it's not funny. And who the fuck knows what a sailfish is, unless they study ocean life?? THINK.
"Because all of these traits can obviously result in an inability to get along with others, people with Aspergers often prefer the company of animals to humans." ... It's not that we can't get along, it's the fact that a lot of them like to talk about people and will judge first, instead of try to stay mindful and come from a place of understanding. Which is something you lack, even though I still think you are on the spectrum. And dude, most people prefer the company of their pet(s) or animals over humans. Why? Because they don't talk.
(CONTINUE)
And your talk about The Hangover, that was just a clueless rich kid, who actually wasn't that clueless. He was a druggie.
And the rest of the things you said. There are a lot of people that self diagnoses, I will admit that. But those are people trying to understand why they are the way they are, at least those people are trying to figure their shit out. But it can be quite annoying. And some of the things you did say, is some what true, but it's not all truth and it's not fact. You only have your one or two encounters. Not all of us are the same, we are all different from each other. And there are so many similarities between NTs and those who have AS, wait... let me clarify... THERE IS SO MANY SIMILARITIES BETWEEN ALL HUMAN BEINGS our differences is just that, differences. We ALL have lots in common, differences are so minor, but people make it the big thing. Which is wrong and sad.
And you sit in front of a computer and write things about other people, as if you know about it, which clearly you don't. It's just your opinion of your encounter of one or two people. You refer to yourself in 3rd person at times. You don't know how to communicate with other people who leave you a comment, unless they agree with you. You have a narcissistic and sociopaths personality, from what I can tell with a lot of the things you write about. You are very rigid, you are very narrow minded, and judgmental. So if all these things you say are traits of those on the spectrum, then you sir, have Asperger's Syndrome.
But the way you write, I want to think you are an intelligent person, but you come off as very ignorant, closed minded, narcissistic, sociopath. Your opinion on things is going to hurt you if you don't get the facts from the right people. You know nothing about those on the spectrum, only a small portion of it, and it's stereotyping. That's like saying all Asians are very pale, long straight black hair, submissive, good at math, and works at a nail salon, and loves sushi. That comes off a bit racist, but most of all, stereotyping. Why are you stereotyping all people who have AS?
I think you should really take a good look at your heart, with your sad lonely life, and analyze yourself, stop analyzing everyone else. Or at least try not to analyze others so much. But I really think you are on the spectrum.
Well good luck with your life.
(^-^)v
Anon --
Thank you for wishing me good luck with my life!
Hmmm. There are a couple of points that attract my notice about his blog; one of which is that much of what he says is what he may have read from descriptions of Autism: the inability to 'read' others, the attempts to 'act' like NTs, not predicting how others will react, a different sense of humour, somewhat asocial, need for routines, dislike of criticism, poor fine motor coordination, intense focus, rigid thinking etc. etc.
But it is the way that he says it that rankles. He seems to go out of his way to make his statements in a deliberately offensive manner.
He admits in response to comments made that he knows 4 people with autism and has met a few more - so as knowing one with autism is knowing but one, his experience is VERY limited.
It is interesting how he has written it so as to provoke exactly the responses he is complaining about.
Whether that is deliberate or not is an open question.
lmao. wow how sad, that's all you can say, "Thanks for wishing me good luck with my life." lol, I guess you really are someone with Asperger's. Especially with all the stereotyping you did, you definitely are what you described.
It's interesting how when someone actually read everything you wrote, and debunked pretty much everything you said, all of a sudden you have nothing to type. lol.
I have to say that your post explains my husband and son to the T. It is so hard living with someone who has Aspergers. They distance themselves from the world. You are so right about always being right. No faults. I have to be the one taking the medications of anxiety , and depression just to be able to live with them. Have to add to this that it gets worse as they become older. I can so relate to the post.
Wow, I checked back in on this blog and the comments are still going strong. Here's a few things that might be of interest.
Dr Sam Vaknin is a diagnosed sociopath who normally writes on narcissism. He has a YouTube video comparing Aspergers and narcissism.
Dr. Tony Attwood is a true expert on Aspergers, and a friend to that community. His book calls Aspies more self-centered than selfish. He also talks about the Aspie subtypes, reactions to their childhood suffering from being socially rejected. The particular subtypes develop bc of the individual's own basic personality, and the personal experiences of that individual. One of the subtypes is the narcissistic god - like reaction, the clueless narcissist: "I'm not socially offensive, you are!" I think you've seen plenty of this. Other subtypes include the Mimic, the Isolated, the Imaginative Fantasizer (labels mine, but that's the gist. No time right now to look up the book references). Interesting book and sympathetic to the Aspie condition.
Because these personality traits are understandable for those whose social development is stunted by a lifetime of rejection and blindness to ordinary social cues, does not change the fact that these traits are offensive to those who are capable of ordinary social interaction.
One other video reference : Willows Web Astrology has a YouTube video about dating someone with Aspergers. I had to overlook the unfortunate references to astrology nonsense, but if you can get past that she has a well-spoken account of the barriers between those with ordinary social ability, and those who have grown up deprived of that ability.
Racist much? I see you the same as Westboro Baptist church "god hates fags", you are no better than that. I hope you will at least be intelligent enough to find humor in your own hypocrisy and the idiots who eat it up as gospel. Maybe Kool-Aid will name a flavor after you.
First Anon (who posted at 12:38PM):
Thank you; I've gotten that response from enough non-Aspies to know that my experience is fairly common.
Michael --
Thank you. I checked out Dr. Vaknin's video on narcissism vs. Aspergers and he certainly sounds as if he knows what he's talking about. There's a certain commonality in that neither can ever admit being wrong, but there's a whole lot of ego that goes along with the real narcissists that seems to be missing in aspires. I also took a look at the video in which he talks about this sociopathy, and while what he says is all plausible, he does seem like a sociopath, and therefore I'm a little disinclined to take him at his word, or, at least, am suspicious of what he says (though I found nothing to disagree with outright).
I also watched about ten minutes of that Willows video and it does sound as if she had a fairly typical experience with an Aspie.
Second Anon (who posted at 2:05) --
Comparing me to the Westboro Baptist Church shows the insight and level of analysis I would expect from an Aspie. Thank you for illustrating a couple of the points I made in the post.
I had a self-diagnosed asperger, I realized by my self I was different. And as far as I've read most of us knows and feels and realizes we're different. Unfortunately I know some people just can't cope with our differences, like you, for instance. But many of your arguments seems to be out of stereotyped sense of Aspies and ruled by bad personal examples. I know lots of aspies and none of them seems remotely as strange as the character from The Hangover, which people does not usually "diagnoses" him with asperger. Sheldon is more likely a child with asperger, and fyi most of us, after growing up learn how to, yes, pretend, we're normal, but that's because we care for other people, and it's really hurtful when someone like you comes and says: Give up, you're a (almost) useless piece of human being and I don't like your kind of presence in the world. It's actually pretty close to eugenicist, just like the nazis where.
How's this: Aspie who goes nuts if someone complains about his extremely rude, racist, sexually inappropriate exclamations. Obsessed with TV contest winners and beauty pageant winners, cyber stalking them, bombarding them with angry tirades when the won't return his love. He actually says in all seriousness that refusing to answer his demanding emails and posts is a cruel form of "reverse bullying" (his coinage). He angrily stuck his foot in a neighbor's door, stating "I'm not leaving until you explain why you won't be my friend." He belches and farts constantly, followed by a mischievous grin and raised eyebrows. Cute. He's a savant with an encyclopedic knowledge of Broadway musicals and opera. Yet when asked why he likes a certain performance, he says it's because the female singer is "so hot I just want to f*** her!" He absolutely hates singers whom he doesn't find attractive and says they should die. Has no concept of irony or satire do often argues with people or screams at the television, which he watches -- 3 different TVs at the same time. Though he often claims to be super intelligent and great at "multitasking", he actually only keeps shifting his focus from one thing to another then yells at the TV/computer/CD player/radio for being "too slow and stupid." When he laughs, it's a terrifying bellow and he appears angry, not happy. He complains that people are always starting fights with him. If he sees someone jaywalking, or smoking too close to the wall of a building, he'll run up to them and begin a lengthy admonition. Despite all this it's really all the fault of "ignorant people" who don't understand his asperger's.
TL:dr A Burger!
First Anon (who posts at 11:23PM) ==
Wow, that person sounds like a real charmer. I haven't seen a lot of those specific behaviors myself, but they do sound Aspergery. He sounds like a high-testosterone case of Asperger Syndrome. Scary. I'm surprised, given his stalking and his aggressive behavior with that neighbor, that he hasn't gotten in trouble with the law yet.
This is obviously someone you know; I hope for your sake it's a relationship you can end, although I'm guessing it's not, judging from the fact that you know him so well and have witnessed far more than enough to convince you to just end it if you could. Oh well.
Second Anon (who posted at 12:05AM) -- You'll have to translate that.
I'm 17 and from New Zealand and i'm about 99% sure i have aspergers, along with my brother, and my father.
I think the problem with us is that we generally don't have the memory or mind to be able to think normally and come off as being all the things we wish we were. Our narcissism gets in the way. For me personally, i am constantly creating images of what things will be like when i reach them. For instance if i'm going out with friends i picture myself laughing and joking with them, being coordinated and having fun, and making everyone feel comfortable in my presence. I know that that must sound pathetic and sad, but it's what i do. When i finally do reach this ideal and happy point in time, i find that i'm so stuck up about creating this image that everything falls apart. I come off as being all the things i wish i wasnt; rude, ungrateful, competitive, serious, mean, scornful, jelous, and insensitive. I wish i could be happy for everyone around me living normal and decent lives, i really wish i could be, but its impossible. My brain is incapable of such, and so i usually can't wait to get out of any social activities in case i make a fool of myself. I often fantasize about living a quiet life by the sea, living in the solitude of my own self absorbed happiness. That way the people around me wouldn't have to deal with all these character flaws. But in order to do that i would have to have money. i would have to have a job. I would have to be able to do all the things normal people can do in order to gain what they truly desire, and all the small things that wouldn't knock down a non aspie would get in the way. So instead i just accept that i am who i am and nothing can change that. People will always treat me without the respect and desire i wish that i deserved, and i can't blame them. Being an aspie is tough, but who i really feel sorry for are my family members. They have unknowingly lived with one for 17 years, and this explains a lot about how unhappy and defeated my mother looks whenever she glances at me.
Anon --
Thank you for that. I think you're the first Aspie who's written a comment which hans't been hostile. If all Aspies were as honest and straightforward as you I wouldn't resent them, but would feel sympathetic.
You say you've met a few people with Asperger's, but only about half of what you describe fits any of the ones I've met. I've met dozens of them. None of them have more than a few things in common with the description in this post. The only person I've seen who comes close to matching this description is Sheldon; who's fictional. Maybe the people you met were extreme cases?
Pop --
Possibly. But a couple of the ones I've known, I've known real well. My guess is, if you've known dozens, in most cases you probably got just an incomplete snapshot of their personalities.
Yeah, this post is quite insulting. And the personality traits described are just that, personality traits, not something that applies to all sorts of people with a developmental disorder. If I wrote a post about "all nerotypicals" it would take just as long as writing a post about people with Asperger's, forever and ever, until I died or the last human was born.
Awesome article. Hi John. Your article is honest and very descriptive. Aspies should calm down a little bit.
I couldn't agree less at your article. Aspies should know they are aspies. Not to say they have to be someone else but they need to know how people's perception towards them.
They are awkward and lame. period. That's how majority people perceive. But indeed, they generally have a good set of narrowed skill(music, writing, programming). My perspective is, they need to be awkward to be good at their set of skill. You didn't expect Einstein to be socially active and have time to think all those things. ;)
Having several aspie friends(and they don't know about it yet) alarming me on how important they have to know themselves first. IMHO, they are like pearls in the sea that need to be polished. Yes, they need to be pushed.
BTW, I acknowledge my Asperger just 3 months ago and I have to say, it's both exciting and sad. :).
-hudz
Hi Craig,
I am 32, male and currently seeing a clinical psychologist for help with ADD/Asperger's. I have previously been diagnosed Bi-Polar/Paranoid Schizophrenia.
This post is several years old but I would just like to comment. What you wrote about Asperger's is fairly accurate, but it can be corrected.
These problems will not go away but I would just like to add that telling the Asperger partner how he/she is behaving like and explaining WHY this behaviour is wrong helps both parties. I have to thank my current partner for pointing out my behaviour that has led me to seeking help.
Yes, I understand that having a "condition" does not justify my behaviour, aka, being an asshole for as long as I can remember, but recognising why this behaviour is exhibited gives, I can only speak for myself, an opportunity to change.
To those who commented that have partners who have Asperger's, I suppose try to explain their behaviour to them and how it makes you feel and ALSO truly listen to how they see things from their perspective, which might be markedly different from yours. Advise them to seek help from a mental health professional if possible. I hope this helps :)
My thoughts after reading your article....I have two very close loved ones with Aspergers. Yes they struggle with some of the traits you mentioned, but those traits are NOT who they are. They are some of the most sensitive and kind people I know. They are the first ones to stand up for someone who is being bullied. They always help animals or others in need. In fact I have witnessed both of them help the homeless by giving them bags of food and clothing. The aspies that I know are highly intelligent, have great memories and love to be silly and laugh and have fun. They are some of the most amazing trust worthy, creative and artistic people I know. They have great attention to detail and write great stories. They are good people who have struggles just as we all do. I can't imagine what it must be like to struggle with the sensory issues and social issues they do on a daily basis. It must be incredibly hard to fit in in our uncaring judgemental society. So while I see some truth in your article, I also see that you have missed telling of their many good qualities. We need more love in the world, more acceptance more tolerance, more understanding. I hope that people can see and concentrate on the good in those who have Aspergers and not only see their struggles. --Kat
Hi I am a recently diagnosed Aspie, I will admit my views are rigid and I'm not easy to get along with.
Though to some of the other post's we are not all the same. The sum of who we Aspies are, are led by our experience's.
Myself I've always known I was different. Been told I'm different, I do not deny this even though. To other people it looks to them I have denied it.
People have always done this to me so I have developed differently to other Aspies being somewhat aware of their awkwardness. I am very apologetic worry if I'm doing something wrong. This is my desperate attempt at trying to fit in.
I have hidden my repetitive movements, which were not mentioned. In your experience with the Aspie's you know. Since being Diagnosed I have as my partner described regressed somewhat. 'You've never done that before!' But I have I just Hid it because of Bullying.
Every case of Aspergers is Different.We are not all that easy to label as you describe. Some Hide so well when they are diagnosed people often do not realise and start drawing attention to those faults.
You are entitled to your opinion however Rigid in it's own right it is. It's not offended me at all. But I do see how it's offended so many others.
In my interests I am always right, and you may think It's just me thinking I am right. This would be a wrong assumption. I have always proven to everyone else how in my interests my view is right. In everything else I am always wrong. I get last place in general quiz's but in my Own interests I beat my group of friends in seconds. They had managed one turn where I just kept going to win. When I'm right I know I'm right when I'm wrong I know I'm wrong and I am always apologetic.
I'm basically saying you may need to look at a wider spectrum of Autistics. We come in all varieties and are not as Rigid as you describe.
Kat --
It's true, Aspies DO tend to be more honest. And one of the Aspies I know is a genuine animal lover. (Although I suspect part of the reason she likes animals so much is because they don't talk back to her, as other human beings do.)
I also wrote here that Aspies are in many ways the opposite of sociopaths:
http://justnotsaid.blogspot.com/2012/12/do-autistic-people-have-full-range-of.html
So, yes, you make some good points.
Anon (whose post was sent at 4:41AM) --
You're making the point that not all Aspies are exactly alike, which others have made in their comments as well. Certainly that is true, I would never deny it. But as with all syndromes, Aspies also have certain behaviors which they tend to have in common, which is what my post is about.
They are rigid in their thinking, to the point where they must ignore facts. They generally only willingly expose themselves to one viewpoint. If you quote a fact which conflicts with their viewpoint, they may respond by saying something along the lines of, "Uh, what's your source on that?"
Dude, you should read your own post, I think anon has hit the mark and you are ignoring your own claims of ignorance. Try looking at yourself before posting such rubbish. Anonymous said...
So tell me, how many Autistic people have you actually met? I'm thinking one or less.
December 30, 2012 at 8:48 PM
Blogger John Craig said...
Anon --
I guess you didn't like the tone of the post, and I'm also guessing you have Aspergers.
Whoever wrote this is a total bellend. Pathetic angry offensive writing
Anon --
That would be me.
"Bellend" -- had to look that one up. Very elegant use of language, I like it.
TO your post on Aspergers. You seem very critical to people with Aspergers. If you were trying to educate on signs and symptoms, than you should of just left educational information. In my opinion you failed to do so. Its as if you were almost putting people down who suffer from Aspergers. Aspergers is a disability, just like any other mental or physical disability and should be educated in a respectful manner. Its hard for any disability. For those suffering and co-suffering ( family friends ) etc. p.s I assume you must like the movie Hangover very much.
I was trying to get educational information on Aspergers, when I came across your post on Aspergers Syndrome. You seem very critical on people who suffer from Aspergers. Almost as if you were putting them down. If you were trying to provide educational information on this disease, you failed to do so in my opinion. People who suffer and co-suffer (friends and family)from any disease like Aspergers, should be educated in a respectful manner.
p.s You must realy like the movie Hangover.
Wow. I really think this is my partner and I'm so exasperated and sad....after trying to approach it in what I thought was a kind and non-insulting way (nine years into the relationship) he did exactly what apparently an Aspie would do.. turn it around by saying "are you sure that's not you" and "then you must have something much worse". He badgers with a question and refuses ANY answer I give... just keeps repeating the question. Every time I say I feel anything he proceeds to tell me I "shouldn't" feel that way. He says I'm crazy and oversensitive.... will continue to critisize my way of doing things like the laundry or the dishes if I don't do it the exact same way he does. We have so much invested together, in life and I love him deeply, he has so many awesome attributes... but he's in COMPLETE and total denial of his affectations and how he can infuriate others... NEVER admits he's wrong and never apologizes. I can't just let go, because I know there's something particular up with him, this Aspie-thing makes complete sense but what do I do? I feel like I'm doing all the work and have to have this selflessness to tolerate things, I have to take all the blame...
Anon --
Sounds like you've got the right diagnosis there. All of that sounds depressingly familiar. The constant accusations, the never admitting he's wrong, the never apologizing. The worst thing is, someone who will never admit he's wrong will never change. whatever decision you make, you have to take that into account.
So... what is the solution? I am on the spectrum myself. Is the general consensus that I don't deserve to live?
How very ableist of you.
Which one of you is going to be man enough to pull the trigger then?
Unknown --
What typical Aspie logic. Please point out exactly where I say that Aspies don't deserve to live.
This is actually a consistent theme I've noticed with the Aspies I've known: in order to "win" an argument, they have to put words in my mouth.
Wow Anonymous I'm having the exact same thing with my husband. I have only recently found out by going through the internet that my husband defiantly has Aspergers. I had coffee with an old school friend over a week ago and she knew that I was having troubles with my husband and said can I ask does x do this, this, this and it was yes to all of the questions. She then went on to tell me her two sons have Aspergers and she believed my husband did to and it would be in my best interests to look into it.....well it took me to the internet and everything I am reading is him down to a tea. The problem I have at the moment is he is making a big decision that is going to affect our lives and affect me financially down the track and unfortunately he thinks he is right and I can't get it through to him that Lawyers and alike have all said its not right.....After reading all of this I know that he won't change his mind. He is going to lose someone that has stood by him and loved him every inch of the way....and I am struggling having to do this but have been instructed I have no choice if he goes through with it.....what a horrible situation to be in :-(
Well, at times I admit I'm wrong but at times, I don't know that I'm wrong. As a teen with Asperger's, I do find some of this stuff offensive. I mean, not all Aspies are annoying. o.O Sure, we can be friendly at times but like "normal" people, we can be mean at times and that's how I am sometimes. I also happen to have PTSD and DD-NOS (a type of depressive disorder). So don't try to judge us Aspies by what we do. I consider some of your statements to be ableist.
The lack of common sense thing is right.
I completely drop friends, or try my damnedest to avoid them, after I demonstrate a complete failure to have understood the world in a "robust" way.
However, the problem is exactly that. Neurotypicals will wake up the next day anew; an aspie might wake up the next week anew.
Neurotypicals don't notice it because they've already recovered 7 times over.
I have been diagnosed with Aspergers as well and I respect what everyone else has said as everyone is entitled to there opinion but Kudos to him who wrote this article he explained it better then most Doctor's I have seen. In fact I read it as he is actually sticking up for us and brought up many valid points of some of the stuff I have done I was never even aware of I was even thinking to myself " oh yeah" . Superb job
Anon --
Thank you.
Thanks John... I have come to love a man who I believe is exactly what you say.. I see such a loving, gentle intelligent side to him, yet such an awkward uncomfortable side & a side that truly shows he does not like any critism, even when you are trying to help (he has no idea how to budget & is about to lose a lot). His lack of empathy is what made me look into why he could be the way he is... I know he loves his family & wants to be there, but if they come here, it is me who entertains, while he goes ponder in the backyard. Or if we go there (and he needs to go in a hurry), says hello & then takes off to do his own thing, can't focus on others feelings or whats happening in their lives.. Randomly within a conversation between friends, he will go off on his own interest & you see everyone's wonder as to why... Yet he is still the beautiful soul, and I brought it to his attention nicely & he actually agreed he thinks that may be a part of his problems... Yet I am still coping a mouthful for caring, because he does not like any thing negative said to him... Would love him to get on my page for a change... But thank you.. You have only said it the way it is & Aspies are intelligent, smart, loving and have lots of good... But it is going to be hard work to make this man see my way at all... and I don't want a life of battles.. cheers.. Deb
Deb --
The man you're describing actually sounds relatively benign. Aspies are not evil people, you don't have to watch out of them the way you do with sociopaths or even narcissists. But they can be extremely annoying, and frustrating. You have a good, open and honest attitude though, so maybe things will work out.
Good luck.
Thank you.
Actually John, I found your article relieving that someone else saw it the way I do! It is especially hard for me because my child has aspergers. He is only 10. It is difficult to feel this way about your child. I love him with an undying type of love. However I found your article because I was searching for differences between Narcissism and Aspergers or if it were possible to have both. I divorced his father 9 years ago due to his abusive behavior toward myself and our son, who was just an infant. My EX was diagnosed with Narcissism during an ongoing custody battle when the court ordered him to undergo a psych. eval.
To this day, even after my son has been diagnosed with AS, I still wonder if his manipulation, and lying, and deceitfulness, are all just AS? After reading your post I feel somewhat relieved to know someone else out there see's it! I have talked to therapists and doctors, who all tell me that most Aspies are mostly manipulative only during meltdowns, or they are usually unable to lie. So then I find myself confused. And scared. I ask myself if I am raising the spawn of satan? How do I re-direct his course? Who do I contact for help? How will I get this child to see he is wrong? He absolutely will not admit when he lies, or ANY wrong doing what-so-ever!!!!! EVEN IF I STOOD THERE AND WATCHED HIM DO IT AND HE KNOWS I'M STANDING THERE! He will accuse others of doing things that that did not do, especially when it is during an episode of a melt down and he is being directed to his room for time out. For instance, If I touch his back to get him to walk as he is refusing to walk to his room, all the sudden he is claiming that I kicked him all the way down the hall!!!!! When I argue that I did no such thing and have witnesses to testify that I did no such thing he STILL will not change his story! I am exhausted. I have had him in his third school now and he is only in 5th grade. I get almost daily notes or phone calls with regard to his behavior. He is constantly interrupting others, or calling other kids foul names, or refusing to do assignments, or simply refusing to comply with the teacher. He has an aid who stays with him all day at school just to keep him from talking and so he gets to his classes. When he comes home I cannot help but get overwhelmed with him from the notes from teachers and his automatic arguing and refusing to be honest and take responsibility. He is nasty to his brother, and never has anything nice to say to anyone. We don't raise him this way, we raise our kids to know God, and love one another. My son loves animals and is not cruel to anything. He cries if you kill a bug. I think I may have hope. Thanks for a good read.
Lilucille --
Thank you. All I can say is, generally Aspies aren't successful manipulators because they just don't read others well enough to know how to push their buttons without being obvious about it. I wrote about it a little bit here:
http://justnotsaid.blogspot.com/2012/12/do-autistic-people-have-full-range-of.html
It actually sounds as if your son has Aspergers combined with something else. Having had a narcissistic father couldn't have helped.
Thank you. I love my Aspie son, but today I needed to remember he didn't choose to be so exhausting.
People usually get psycho and aspergers mixed up for both have different ways of socializing with others. The difference is one is narcissistic, fakes his or her emotion, and uses people for their egoistic behavior; while the other is openly honest, self criticize him or herself, and cannot understand other people's emotion easily. Guess which one is which?
Anon --
Your description of a sociopath is correct if that's what you mean by "psycho," but your second description, obviously intended to be of people with Aspergers, is incorrect on one count: they're not more self critical than the average person, and in fact they have a much harder time taking criticism from others than the average person.
-John
I'm on the autism spectrum and you are the most insensitive jerk evah!!!! Okay I'm just kidding. :P
On a more serious note, I agree with many of the points you say. When I was younger (26 now), I was guilty of many of these things and occasionally I still am. I know my social skills aren't exactly great and I try as hard as I can to fit in. I am quirky, but I do have acquaintances and I'm very open about my autism with them.
Here are some things I've noticed from other "Aspies" (and the AS community). This applies to some but not all people.
1: They LOVE separating themselves from "NTs". Whenever I hear that word, I feel like it's a form of racism in a way just like when the term "blacks" are used.
2:I'm not a part of the ND community. But from what I've seen and read, they never talk about improving their own behavior but rather how others can help them. More services, better tolerance, yeah. But what can THEY do to make themselves better people?
3:I had AS "friends" who melted down and scared the hell out of me in college, played the piano at 4. I watched one guy play Metroid Prime as if he was playing a single player game for a good 4 hours (I didn't even get to do anything).
4:There's a lot of negativity on Wrongplanet. Needless to say, I'm not a member at all and I won't ever be. I'd rather be alone (which for the most part I enjoy) than be around negative people.
Max --
Thank you, that was interesting. I applaud your ability to step outside yourself and perceive other Aspies as NT's perceive them.
"1" is funny; I'd never thought of it that way before, but it does almost sound like a form of discrimination.
"2" is exactly right. It's all about what can they do for us, not how can we improve ourselves.
Anyway, thanks.
(continuation)
I'll add that I can be self-centered and I try to control it but it can be hard. My main issue is starting conversation with other people about things besides myself as opposed to just having the conversation. Not something I'm so happy about - but I live with it nevertheless.
But complaining about others and not bettering oneself gets people nowhere. You can't change other people easily. But you can change yourself.
Max --
Honestly, it sounds as if you have more self-awareness than most neurotypicals.
Thank You John,
The self-awareness and being realistic has indeed helped me in life a lot.
Thank you for the criticism and being realistic. To be honest, that's probably one of the nicest things you can do for other people. When someone criticizes me (within reason), it's a sign they are willing to spend the time and energy to try and make me a better person and that they care about me rather than the fact that they hate me.
The "Politically Correct" behavior about how people need to bend over for AS people will never work and it seems people use AS as an excuse for pretty much everything; while it may EXPLAIN some things it is never an EXCUSE.
I have so much more to say about this... If you want to talk to me more about it just shoot me an email - picl421@yahoo.com
Max --
Thank you but I'm not going to post your last comment because I think you're better off not giving out your email address on this site. If you really want me to, I will, but I'd advise you not to. An awful lot of people seem to read this post and go through the comments.
You're welcome to say whatever you want on this forum, I'm going to pass on the personal correspondence since I already have too many of them going, and these days I can barely keep up with all the comments I get on this blog overall. But again, I applaud your self-awareness and desire to improve yourself.
I appreciate the consideration about the email address - that's just a throwaway I use :D for forums and such. But yeah it was meant just for you just in case the conversation goes too deeply since my introverted self enjoys deep conversations.
Keep up the good work. I honestly hope more people find out about this post and can understand, accept, and learn from the context of what you are saying rather than just complaining.
Thanks Max.
Thank God I live in Solitude.
@Anonymous
I live in Windhelm and it's 5 times better. Go Stormcloaks!
In every place I read about AS, there are always substantial difference in what there is written.
"But if you're clueless about human nature, how can you possibly realize that others are not equally so?"
That's wrong. Most autistic realize by theirselves that they're different. I figured that about myself when I was just 3 (of course they don't consider autism option, they may think they're stupid - I always though I was stupid, and I still do), and I had my diagnosis when I was 3, then at the age of 6, 11 and another confirmation two years ago. There are things that NT people notice better than me, and they point at me what I do wrong. What you say may be true but those are extreme cases. Autistic people are all different just like NTs people.
Being sensitive with criticism is not an aspie trait. Many people are proud and don't like criticism, they get upset and they aren't aspie.
"Aspergers can't admit they're wrong, aspergers hypocritical behavior during discussions" but at the same time they say they're more honest than neurotypical, and this make me confused (the comment is in comments, not in the article).
How can somebody be honest and hypocrite at the same time? aren't those traits complementary?
I understand Max's point of view, I tend to hate myself, and I hate myself more when I see how most autistics I've meet think to be above humanity. I hate who thinks to be above the rest of humanity (Everybody, not just autistic supremacists)
Nordlys --
Don't hate yourself, no reason to do that. Just be aware of what your limitations are and work around them. And above all, don't be hypocritical -- not that it sounds as if you are.
My experience with Aspies is that they are very generous with their criticism but melt down if they get criticized themselves. Yes, plenty of neurotypicals can be that way too, but those are mostly narcissists, who are, what -- 20, 30? -- percent of the population.
John Craig: My mother has AS. I definitely have it to a degree, although not nearly as bad as her. I'm honestly just wondering what I could do to be less awkward and infuriating? I know I'm socially awkward and it frustrates me to no end, but I just don't know what to do about it. Please help, I am asking for your genuine help and feedback, thanks.
JHIGH5280 --
There's no easy solution. Basically, Ii'd just say, don't act the way I described people acting in the post. And above all, don't be hypocritical. (That advice applies to everyone, not just Aspies.) If you are critical of others, don't have a meltdown when you're criticized yourself. Even though you feel fury when others criticize you, at least try to pretend to laugh it off, or even thank them for their advice. (Sarcastically, if you must.) Don't go on about subjects others don't have an interest in.
You seem to have a good attitude about this, and if you realize that you're at times hard to deal with, then I'm sure you're less hard to deal with than most Aspies.
Wow, just, wow. Nearly everything you said is dead on. I also relate to the very angry posts you are seeing about it from others who clearly have Aspergers. I recognize the signs very well. I've been living with this every day in my fiancée for the past 4 years. It is exhausting and at times, very hopeless.
My fiancée has Aspergers. Fortunately he is further along than most after a rocky patch where I informed him I'd probably either leave him or kill him if he didn't go to seek therapy and help for ways to mitigate his unflinching desire to always be right, never admit fault or say he's sorry, and rigid adherence to schedules. He did seek help and he is in therapy. There have been improvements as he has learned new methods of interaction and argument but some things I fear will never change because it's just how he processes social information. Mostly all he's learning in therapy is how to pretend to give a shit, without actually giving one.
For example, he eats dinner EVERY day at 5pm. Even if he had a huge lunch and isn't hungry. I've asked him before how he can possibly eat after having Five Guys a few hours ago and he looks at me blankly and says, "But it's 5pm..." and I'm like, "Are you actually hungry?" "No." he tells me, but yet he packs it in. All because it's 5pm. Heaven forbid he eat at 6:30 or, gasp, even 7pm when the hunger pangs strike, nope. 5pm it is come hell or high water. It's absolutely astounding to me.
He throws temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way. Huge ones. The kind a 5 year old would throw and he's 30 years old. And he is completely lacking in empathy. He runs a very successful business, his obsession, which makes a lot of money and provides us a very comfortable life, so he once told me to quit my "worthless" job because it didn't bring in enough money to finance our lives and he didn't want to be bothered during the day (he works from home) with meetings by the lawn guys. So he said I should be there to do it since he pays for the house. Mind you this was when we first moved - so the lawn guys were a temporary thing. In essence, he wanted me to quit my job (I work for the Department of Defense and make a very good living with a security clearance and people call me "ma'am" so by all accounts it's pretty damn good) to sit around the house all day, and be there whenever someone might need to come over once every 4-5 months for some house maintenance so he would be free to be 15 feet down the hall in his office. He wanted me to be available so he wouldn't need to be bothered. He didn't even consider what I would do the other 99% of the time when there weren't appointments. And he didn't care. He could not, and would not even try, to understand how insulting and selfish that was. He also didn't understand why I was upset that he said my job was "worthless". Because to him, since he makes far more money, it is.
Alison --
Thank you for that. You understand Aspergers perfectly. The rigidity, the never admitting fault, the tantrums, the inability to get along with others.
I'd tell you that my advice is to leave this guy, since he'll never change, but I'm a little confused. I took a look at your blog, in which you mention leaving your husband in the fall of 2012, yet you say that this Aspie has been your fiancee for four years? Which version is correct?
My Wife has aspergers, and I hate it. It has made our existence a living hell on the bad days, and barely tolerable on the in-between days (we do have some excellent times together and it makes it difficult because the person I see on those good days is the person I have fallen in love with). For the first few years of our relationship I just thought she was screwing with me, trying to drive me insane. I suspected something was wrong, but couldn't put my finger on it.
I went searching google and trawling through different symptoms in the DSM and thought it was BPD, NPD, ADD, OCD and a whole host of other possible personality disorders or dysfunctions and combinations thereof, but when I finally stumbled upon 'aspergers' (which I had never heard of before) it all clicked together.
Anyhow, it is true in my experience that aspergers people can't be wrong. At least the ones I have met (I now understand I have known more than a few people with the disorder that I didn't recognize it as such until a few years ago). In fact, I am writing this now out of frustration and a need to vent as lately the unwillingness to admit fault has been driving me insane.
Tonight, for example, my Wife tells me she is tired and going to bed and we get the kids ready to go to bed, goodnight kisses are made and everybody heads off to sleep. Then, I remember we need to feed our ball python (we had been planning to feed him all day but forgot) and so I ask my Wife if she could stay up with me for a while longer so we can feed the snake; to which she replies with something to the effect of "yeah, I know. That's what I thought we were doing".
But the thing is, that isn't what she thought we were doing, because she was getting ready to go to sleep and already said she was going to bed!!! And then She argues the point when I confront her about it.
Ok, I know I probably sound like an asshole because most people would think "who cares?" when it comes to a small isolated issue, I mean, it's not like she did something terrible, but the point is this happens all the time and it gets infuriating.
If she does anything wrong, forgets groceries, leaves medicine on the counter, forgets to make an important phone call, etc. She always has some excuse that doesn't even make sense lined up immediately. She could trip on a stick right in front of a million people while on camera, and she would try to say she was just bending over to tie her shoes lol.
(and then when you tell her she's on camera tripping on the stick, she would say "I know that" too! Aaargh!!)
Anyhow, thanks for the blog. I agree with your points and sometimes a place to vent about such things is a hard thing to find. I appreciate it.
Now I can chill a bit.
Happy Himitsu --
I know exactly how you feel. You've described the way Aspies can never admit they're wrong perfectly. No matter how lame, they'll come up with some transparent excuse. It's infuriating.
I, to, went through the same thought process. At one point I thought that an Aspie I dealt with had dyslexia, and that's why she seemed to get everything backward. But then, eventually, I discovered that that was not her problem….
You are tiresome. I live with one similar to you who seems to have a chip imbedded into his shoulder. He would angrily swear he had no such piece of wood attached to his body swear that I don't make sense and then proceed to accuse me of malevolence in a rant that always goes on and on. Anger seems his most prominent emotion and he tells me daily that I am to blame for every failing in his life, his drinking, co-dependence on siblings, and job losses. I have done much for him (driving him to work 8 years when he lost his license) and have endured despite the fact that his problems have cost me jobs friends and the happiness I thought we would have shared when we married. I thought he was just shy and a bit awkward but had I perceived the deeper issues I would not have married him. Yes I also see flashes of narcissism and sociopathy in him. Every AS person is different I know but I've read hundreds of letters written by neurotypicals whose experiences echo mine. I'm sorry you have difficulties and feel attacked. I don't think the article meant to provide anything other than a factual assessment of what I see daily in my AS partner. I imagine you have many fine qualities as does my spouse but no amount of talent or expertise in business can replace an intellectual or emotional disconnect between people. We humans are communal by nature and we crave loving interaction. Living continually with the anger, misunderstanding and lack of emotional rapport in my marriage has crushed whatever comfort or connection we might have had. One can't sacrifice oneself forever in exchange for so a box of cold stones & I am getting out to save myself. Not that he would ever understand. So don't be angry, try to get help understanding yourself and how difficult it can be for many of us after years of living without having our basic needs met.
John,
THANK YOU! I finally feel not as alone. I typed several symptoms and finally found this site that had specific examples.
Please forgive my uppercase letters and disorganized post, but I need to vent, share and just not feel so alone.
CONTINUED
Oh and THE SEVERE OCD is unbelievable. I abide by it. I have little to do with anything in the house but EVERYDAY, 10 new OCD outrageous rules are imposed such as airing out the vacuum cleaner for an HOUR! after vacuuming. Again, I abide those rules but it just gets weirder and weirder. I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone only Rod Serling isn't going to show up to shine the light on my living hell and show me the EXIT.
PLEASE LET ME EXIT PEACEFULLY
IT IS HELL
Where to begin
Should have documented this long, long, ago
Did not understand what I was up against
Please understand that he is not my husband, boyfriend, Nor FWB, he is my ROOMMATE
LIVING WITH AN ASPIE
NON STOP TALKING
NON STOP COMPLAINING
NON STOP BITCHING
NON STOP FOLLOWING ME AROUND
About EVERYTHING
Mosquitoes biting him
Dirt
RAMBLES ON IN GREAT DETAIL
ABOUT EVERYTHING
HATES
Dirt
Bugs
Anything in Nature
His Father and Mother
His Brothers
His Sons
Anything Modern
Anything Computer Tech Related
Hi-Tech
Smoke
Rock n Roll
Sports
Everything
Women
People who wear jeans
People who wear jeans with the tears
Actors who are cool
Occupy Wall Street
Anyone Young
Hippies
Cashiers at stores
Anyone who smokes MJ
Flies into Rages
ABOUT EVERYTHING
Controlling
Control Freak
Micro-Manages
Orders Around
HOVERS CONSTANTLY AND FLIES INTO RAGES WHEN YOU ASK HIM NICELY TO STOP AFTER AN HOUR OF ENDURING THIS
STANDS AND STARES AT ME CONSTANTLY and FLIES INTO RAGES WHEN YOU REQUEST HIM TO STOP
NEEDS CONSTANT ATTENTION
NEEDS CONSTANT PRAISE
TALKS AT YOU
REPEATS HIMSELF 20 TIMES
ASKS QUESTIONS A MILLION TIMES, THEN DISREGARDS ANSWERS AND INTERRUPTS AND CALLS YOU NAMES
CRITICIZES EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYONE
WILL NOT TAKE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICIZISM FROM ANYONE ABOUT HIS OBNOXIOUS BEHAVIOR TOWARD ME EVEN WHEN DONE CALMLY WITH AFFECTION WITHOUT FLYING INTO A RAGE
TALKS EXCESSIVELY IN DETAIL ABOUT EVERYTHING BORING INCLUDING SPEED OF TRAINS FOR HOURS
WILL NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE SPEAK ABOUT THEIR INTERESTS and GETS NASTY WHEN THEY DO (IE “IM NOT INTERESTED IN THAT! STOP IT!”) BUT DARN IT, YOU CAN NEVER POLITELY REQUEST THE SAME WITHOUT HIM FLYING INTO A RAGE
MAKES JOKES THAT MAKE NO SENSE
MAKES JOKES AT YOUR EXPENSE
THEN LAUGHS VERY LOUDLY IN A CREEPY WAY
IF YOU STAND UP TO HIM EVEN TO DEFEND YOURSELF, VIOLENT RAGE ENSUES
CREEPY
STARES AT ME THROUGH WINDOWS
FOLLOWS ME FROM ROOM TO ROOM
BLOCKS ALL PATHWAYS AS I GO TO ENTER OR EXIT (IE BATHROOM, KITCHEN, TO GET COFFEE, WASH LAUNDRY)
STANDS NEXT TO ME WHEN I DO ANYTHING
STANDS AND STARES AT YOU WHEN YOU ARE DOING MUNDANE EVERYDAY TASKS THEN
COMMENTS ON EVERYTHING I DO AND ASKS TENS OF QUESTIONS ABOUT IT (IE WHY DO YOU TIES YOU SHOES THAT WAY) THEN SAYS YOU SHOULD DO IT “HIS WAY” THEN WHEN DEFENDING YOURSELF ON WHY YOU DO THAT WAY, INTERRUPTS YOU AND FLIES
INTO A RAGE
CONTINUED...
QUESTIONS EVERYWHERE I GO AND “WHY SO LONG?” I do not respond to this.
QUESTIONS EVERYTHING THAT I “THINK” (NOT SAID), I don’t talk much AND INTRUDES ON ANY PRIVATE THOUGHT THAT I MIGHT HAVE
I don’t like to talk much or have long convos and when I try to DEFEND MY RIGHT NOT TO, HIS RAGE ENSUES.
THE MINUTIAE OF HIS COMMENTS ARE ENDLESS AND CIRCULAR AND YOU ARE
FOLLOWED WHEN TRYING TO ESCAPE
WHEN YOU TRY TO ESCAPE POLITELY AFTER A FULL HOUR OF CIRCULAR CONVOS, YOU HEAR “DON’T YOU WALK AWAY FROM ME WHEN I AM TALKING TO YOU!”
STARTS CONVOS ABOUT NOTHING AND GOES ON FOR HOURS INTO OTHER STORIES
STORIES ARE BORING WITH NO POINT AND END WITH SOME KIND OF VIOLENCE
WHEN SPEAKING ABOUT SAID CONVOS OR ANYTHING AT ALL GETS VERY LOUD AND FLAPS ARMS AND HANDS AROUND WITH LOUD NARRATIVE OBNOXIOUS NOISES WHILE JUMPING UP AND DOWN
THEN RAGEFUL WHEN YOU TRY TO POLITELY EXIT
WHEN SAID OCCURRENCES HAPPEN AND YOU ESCAPE, HE TALKS TO HIMSELF, THEN STARTS BITCHING LOUDLY AND SLAMMING THINGS AND OUTSIDE YOU’RE THE AREA YOU IN INCLUDING BEHIND THE DOOR OF THE ROOM YOU ARE IN
MUTES OR PAUSES VIDEOS TV WHEN I AM IN BATHROOM OR CLOSE DOOR TO MY BEDROOM
OPENS MY MAIL AND BOXES
BUZZES AROUND ME CONSTANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT EVERYTHING
EVERY LONG WINDED STORY THAT I AM BLOCKED THEN SUBSEQUENTLY FORCED INTO LISTENING TO TURNS INTO SOME CREEPY ENDING THAT IS LOUD WITH FLAPPING HANDS
LIES CONSTANTLY TO NEIGHBORS ABOUT HIS ACTIVITIES BECAUSE HIS ONLY ACTIVITIES ARE BITCHING, COMPLAINING AND HOARDING
HE NEVER LEAVES THE HOUSE
ALL OF HIS “COLLECTIBLES” ARE MERELY HIS JOY OF PRETENDING THAT HE DOES THEM, HE DOES NOTHING BUT CLEAN AND BITCH ABOUT DIRT
Paranoid about me talking about him. Of course I did to a few close friends and relatives because he is a Creepy Monster who is abusive and he is paranoid because he knows he is behind closed doors and doesn’t want anyone to know.
ANGRY VIOLENT OUTBURSTS
He finger punched me in the throat because he asked a question and I gave him a polite answer, then he slammed me into the counter repeatedly screaming at the top of his lungs. Nice, huh?
Turning my large Computer Desk to 45 degrees knocking over my computer while screaming at the top of his lungs and threatening to slam into the pool
Pounding on countertops
Pounding on Cupboards
Shutting off the Power
Telling me his going to throw all my belongings out into the street RIGHT NOW! And goes to do so until I grab me cell and threaten to call the Police
WHEN REQUESTING TO JUST NOT DISCUSS OR TALK ABOUT IT AFTER ENDLESS HOURS, HIS VIOLENT RAGES ENSUE AND BECOME POLICE CALL WORTHY
I should have documented every specific episode everyday as there are multiple everyday.
I remember them and can reference most dates.
I will provide specific examples so that you can see the reality and my AWFUL PAIN.
I will be doing that to illustrate the utter hell of this EXITstence.
Because I need support and a way OUT
Forgive me for the bad organization of these thoughts and uppercase but I finally needed to get something on paper but earlier thought that it would change, then thought, I’d just escape but did not and now I realize that I should have earlier.
Signed,
HELP for an NT Going through hell
And looking for any EXIT
Desperately Seeking Susan --
I was reading your description of this guy, and assuming he was your husband or boyfriend, then was astounded when you said he was just your roommate. There's a very simple solution: just leave. It's difficult to disentangle oneself from a husband, especially if there are kids involved, but a roommate?? I'm amazed you've stayed long enough to be able to document his behavior so well.
The case you describe sounds worse than most. Much of what you said I've seen, but the jabbing in the throat and slamming against the counter is actually criminal. Blocking your way whenever you try to go from one room to another is also new to me.
Anyway, thank you for that list of behaviors, it is terrible, but the solution to your problems seems fairly simple: leave.
John,
Thank you for your prompt response. Again, I apologize for my uppercase and disorganized posts as it was the very first time that I have even written this down, let alone post.
Your advice is sound and good. That is exactly what I have been trying to do for a long time. LEAVE.
But, I have some unique circumstances right now that prohibit me from doing so. I lost my home during the crash and now am technically homeless. I am "staying" with this man. I am older and he older than me. I only have one living relative to help me and I went 3000 miles to stay with her but they lost their jobs to China and left their home and moved into a small place and cannot have me.
CONTINUED...
CONTINUED...
I am trying to find a place to stay.
I am terrified. But not so much after dealing with this so long. I have a small pet and I cannot live under a bridge because of that, and believe me, I would have just to avoid this nightmare.
To clarify things:
I have NEVER been in any trouble of any kind or anything like that. I was married a long time. My parents are deceased and as I said I only have one living relative to turn to.
I am trying to leave and "he" wants me to go as a while back I finally expressed what I thought of him.
CONTINUED...
I will post more about that and other stuff but I don't want to be too precise as I am and always was a very private person. One of the reasons that this situation is excruciating painful to me.
I am a private, quiet, introspective type person who only desires peace and fun on occasion.
And this is HELL.
I was married for nearly 2 decades and my ex-husband was a think outta the box type person. He was into his own life and a bit of a narcissist but I LIKED him. He was smart and successful and he was a social genius.
The opposite of what I am dealing with now.
CONTINUED...
CONTINUED...
Anyway John et al,
I have read your blog and comments and I can completely relate.
I never knew about aspergers before I had to live with someone who has it. BTW, he is not diagnosed as such and would never even understand what it is. But, yes, he has it.
I had never known anyone EVER to behave this way (except one friend I knew but only in a casual way for 2 years and didn't "get him" and didn't know what aspergers was; Another friend of mine had pointed out that maybe he had it, but I didn't even know what it was at that time, looking back, after all this, I know).
It is bizarro world.
CONTINUED...
And yes John the night that he finger punched me in the neck and the banged me up against the counter is criminal and a line in the sand.
I went to a neighbor that night because he also came out to porch while I was "escaping" his crazy and was filling up glasses of water and throwing them at me in my face.
I ran to his house but he said and told him what was happening and he said "well, he's my friend, you're putting me in a difficult situation".
You see people don't believe that abuse occurs, it is hidden, and I don't believe in calling the police unless someone is going to kill you and even if I did, they probably wouldn't believe a homeless person. Again, I have a clean background, I mean squeaky clean. But I don't think people would believe me because he doesn't do this in front of others, however, this last weekend...
CONTINUED...
CONTINUED...
He did display some of the behavior in front of one neighbor who likes him but her husband does not. In fact, "he" despises him also.
I was surprised that he "slipped" up on his rigid fake social niceties, but he did. And I gave it back to him in front of her because I felt safe because she was there. If this was alone, he would have erupted into a violent outburst.
He didn't because of that. But after she left, he started the loud bitching to himself about me in the other room and slamming stuff.
TO BE CONTINUED...
DesperatelyseekinganEXIT --
OK, there's no question, you've established that your living arrangement is unlivable. maybe you're getting free rent or something there, I don't know. But now the key is just to find somewhere else to live. Even if it's a homeless shelter, anything has to be better than this. And in the meantime, you sound intelligent, you should try to find a job. That's the real solution to being able to move. It also sounds to some extent as if your pet is preventing your from being as mobile/employable as you might be otherwise; so maybe you should consider giving i up. Sorry to be so harsh, but there you have it.
Hi John,
Again thank you for your prompt response.
Free rent? Well sorta. I do all his computer stuff for him and live in one his many "storage rooms". I have 2 ft of closet space and a 6 drawers. I don't use much water and don't like using much electricity. I save his butt on making bucks for him but because he computer illiterate.
I have looked for jobs, done and redone resumes numerous times all while having a severe back condition as well as panic disorder and yes I am in the hell of applying for disability but they tell me that "I am pleasant, etc.". Still waiting on a hearing, just got a letter today saying that they will schedule one many months from now. I have no health insurance and because of that, it doesn't look good (they go by treatments).
continued...
continued...
I will not give up my 10 year old pet that is the only reason I get up in the morning and TRY.
I never had kids and she is my BABY.
The only reason that I did not go live under a bridge.
Homeless shelters are only for women who have children. The very few that will take you are prison night camps:
7pm check in
shower decontaminate
etc.
then out the door at 7am
and even those prison camps arent in my area
continued...
continued...
They don't hire 50 somethings with no recent work history.
And because of my back, I couldn't even if they would.
Automation:
It takes one part time person to do what it took 20 years ago what it 100 people to do.
I do my own computer and creative business but I only make enough to scrape by and I don't mean rent.
I lost my car also as I had to sell it, first time since I was 16 years old without one.
I held on to as long as I could.
to be continued...
Desperate --
OK, I get it, you're in dire straits. I'm sorry about that. You seem to have a pretty good handle on your situation, though, and you know what you need to do. So, good luck.
As far as your roomie, yes, no question, he has Aspergers. In fact, he's such an extreme case that he may be even further out on the autistic spectrum than what is normally classified as "Aspergers."
In any case, as far as he's concerned, you know what you have to do: move out, as soon as you can.
continued...
I wish someone, anyone knew of a place that would hire me as a computer skilled person, I'm very good at it.
And a place to stay until I could get my own place.
I realize that no one has one that I know of and they have no friends that are hiring, I've even asked my disability lawyers...he said NO, everyone does.
I want to just pass on but I can't because of my pet.
Oh well endure this hell until... or unless and I have begged people to take her in and they say "no".
Most people fear their own death as I always did, until years of living with an aspie; I now welcome it.
Looked for Exit
It wasn't There
I hope anyone who experiences this finds an Exit
Thank you John,
And I just wanted to say that I can tell that you knew 4 aspies.
It's just draining and exasperating.
Thank you for your blog and comments. It was the first blog/site that really made me feel for just once, not alone. And that means the world to me. It's been so terrible to feel so alone in all this for so long.
I will post in the future specific incidents so many that maybe you and your audience could at least not feel alone.
If that's all I can do in my life to mean anything at all, then so be it.
Once again John, kudos to you for being a beacon and shining light on an ocean where people are drowning and trying to stay afloat and maybe, just maybe EXIT and begin to LIVE again.
Signed,
Don't think I'll make it but I truly hope others do
Desperately --
You're giving me too much credit, I"m not shining beacon, merely someone who, like yourself, wanted to vent.
You sound suicidal. Whatever you do, don't do that on account of the Aspie. That would be, as people say about terrorists, letting him win.
Do you want to let him triumph in such a complete way over you?
Of course not -- don't give him the satisfaction. Instead, give yourself the satisfaction of climbing out of this situation, even if it requires taking a job you feel is somewhat beneath you --- and not in the computer industry -- in the meantime. (There are plenty of those jobs available.)
Get to the point where you can afford to move out, then do. That would be a victory over the Aspie.
Aspies aren't evil, as I pointed out in the post. They're just impossible to deal with. They can't help but be the way they are. Sociopaths are evil. Trust me, they're far worse.
John, your assessment if the Aspie is very gental. I'm in a situation where I live with a married couple and the husband is an undiagnosed Aspie. He absolutely has no common sense. For me to list all the stupid things this man does would take hours and hours. He believes that because he can get up every morning and do stupid mundane things. Because he attempts in caring for his wife who's in a wheelchair due to a stroke,. Because yes unable to multitask, it takes him all day to accomplish anything, he believes what yes done is Remarkable. That No Other Human Being could be as accomplished as he is. Which puts him, and I quote...." In The Top 98%" of men. This man can't even clean up after himself and can't comprehend why I Bitch about having to clean up after him so I can cook supper. When I tried to explain this to him, he looked at me with a blank stare... Like, Duhhh??? Honestly, its the lack of common sense that makes me so infuriated. And its the very basic of things. Like, set the heat thermostat to cut on and off at a comfortable setting instead of having the heater come on when the inside temperature is 57 degrees. He believes that running the heater balls to the wall for 18 hours is more cost efficient. What a stupid idiot!!! And trying to explain and correct this and the other stupid, mindless things he does is like talking to a wall. I know you know what I'm talking about. It's the lack of common sense, him thinking he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, as an Aspie he a linguistic expert..(HaHa, go figure that one), the inability to take criticism or just simple advice. He gets his panties in a wad and eilk accuse me if "not being in touch with reality".... Really? Now I understand why hehas no friends. When having a conversation, he talks to people as if he was giving a lecture. Every conversation is a Teachable Moment. He's not able to just have simple Chit Chat. People get tired of being Talked To and Preached to. You know what I mean by all of this. I'm not saying all Aspies are like this, but This Aspie Man is the most ridiculous, stupid, idiotic, exasperating, makes me want to bash my own head with a hammer, most Narcissist, jackass I ever had the displeasure of knowing. Hopefully I'll be show to get out of this situation before I completely lose my sanity. Thanks for your post. I though you were right on all points
Cappyd --
Thank you.
Your description rings so true. The lack of common sense is amazing, but what's infuriating is the complete lack of acknowledgment that they ever made a mistake. If they were just retarded, which, in a sense, they are, it wouldn't be so bad. YOu could deal with them at that level and make allowances for them and adjust accordingly. But they usually walk around thinking that they're right about everything and even when they're proven wrong, will never acknowledge it.
Your housemate may be overestimating himself: I'd say he's in the top 99.9% of all men. But the next time you get frustrated with him, think of his poor wife, who's tied to him legally and can't just move out that easily.
Not all us aspies are like that.
"Everything's always somebody else's fault." When I make a mistake, I own up to it and apologize to whoever was hurt.
"Can't take criticism no matter how gentle." This one depends. I can handle 'This is what sucks about what you're doing.....this is how you could improve.' but not 'Oh my god you never do anything right!'
"Talks of their own sensitivity, when they're only sensitive to the things directed at them"
No. I am sensitive to other's feelings as well.
"Will deny having said something."
There's a term for this. Straight up gaslighting. (Look it up) Being an aspie doesn't make you do this.
"Lack of common sense"
Well, I guess I expect a speeding car will turn into a giraffe if I stand in the road. *sarcasm*
You did NOT describe us aspies. You described sociopaths and narcissists.
Thank you for this article. I met two aspies on a dive trip. They are married to eachother and right away told the group that they had aspergers and that they apologize in advance if anyone feels offended by things they may say or do. They explained a little about aspergers. The little speech sounded very rehearsed but helped us understand and forgive the irritating behaviour we saw throughout that week. Once I met those two, I quickly realized that my arrogant, narcissistic supervisor at work, whom everybody agrees seems "off" somehow, probably has aspergers. After reading this article and a few others, I have come to the conclusion that he most likely does. One thing I cannot find any info about is how to handle disagreements with this personality, how to tell them when they are doing something wrong and how to handle it when they are straight out lying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Anon --
I'm sure you're right about your supervisor. When a number of people agree that someone is "off," that usually spells Aspergers.
But honestly, trying to handle either an Aspie or a narcissist with logic and reason is usually pointless. Those will just cause them to explode in anger. The best way I've found to deal with sociopaths, especially when they're in a supervisory role, is to couch your suggestions in flattery, i.e., "You're too smart to…." or "You're too good a person to…." They tend to fall for that. An alternative is to tell them what they're doing a good job at, to "soften them up," and then make the suggestion you want to make. It all comes down to their delicate egos, which you basically have to tiptoe around.
So, If I think I may have asbergers or may be autistic in some way then I likely am not? I have a son with NLD (on the scale I am told) and while I get exasperated, I also am told I was just like him at his age. I do not feel at ease socially, am often shunned and the few friends I have been blessed with are not real close. I have been told they are just being nice to me sometimes. I have social anxiety and take things literally. I have no sense of humor. I try to be funny but my kids are the only ones who really laugh unless some one explains the joke. I use to be told I am lame often in school :(
Anon --
Does NLD = nonverbal learning disability?
It almost sounds as if you're putting me on, but if in fact you have all those symptoms, then yes, you probably do have Aspergers.
The reason I suspect you may be putting me on is because usually -- but not always -- people who have those symptoms are not aware that they have them, at least the "not funny" and "lame" part.
I'm an aspie and I've been one of those really infuriating siblings. I've embarrassed my sister, and I've even humiliated myself on the internet. Thing is, all this criticism helped me learn to function better in society. So while I am an aspie, I'm no longer an ass-pie. Aspies need to learn to function in a neurotypical's world.
I grew up taking things very literally, and because of the trouble that literal-mindedness caused, I got into a lot of trouble and began to learn to anticipate being 'tricked'. The defensiveness shown in posts by other aspies may be the result of improper teaching and parenting; aspies like myself may actually categorize words a little differently than neurotypicals.
We often 'talk at' others because we do not get the cues that our long-winded lectures are boring. Aspies look at the mouth and think that :) always means 'happy' for example. We also get long-winded because to us, every detail is often very important, and to remove one detail would be like removing a wheel or even the chassis from a car and expecting us to drive it.
We also do weird things often because of sensory issues, looking for information on our interests, or just because we are doing some kind of experiment or are attempting to try something new. Our timing can be off, and our judgment can be very impaired - I'm actually more careful when I'm under the influence of alcohol than when I am sober, because I know alcohol impairs judgment.
My theory is that we aspies also develop very narrow interests because we love to find things. It's the reason I like games like Sims 3 and Master of Orion 2. I love searching around and finding little treasures, and I love finding information about stuff. My habits actually helped me in school when all the kids had to do this boring timed math test. I discovered a pattern where the answers were sort of like this:
If the first answer was 2, then the answer at the bottom-right would also be 2, and so on, until you reached the right side of the page. I've also corrected tests and assignment guides that had typos in very important parts - some of which threw me off.
So there are good points to having aspergers syndrome. Aspies just have to be trained to use them to their advantage and to function in society.
I used to be one of those stereotypical aspies on the internet, rarely admitting that I was in the wrong, and getting offended when people thought I was half my age. I got better because some people humiliated me on livejournal. I was being a douchebag, and I learned from my mistakes. I've also learned from watching other people get humiliated, and I decided to not do what they were doing.
So aspies come in a lot of different flavors. There are two types of aspies on the internet, though: Aspies who learn from their errors, and aspies who do nothing but bitch and whine and dig themselves into deeper holes... sorta like Chris-Chan.
DollyNipples --
(Love your name.) Thank you for that breath of fresh air. You show a lot of common sense, unlike most (but not all) of the Aspies who've made comments in response to this post. Many of them seem to take the attitude that the NT's should adjust to them, rather than them adjusting to living in an NT world.
Your explanation for why Aspies develop narrow interests also makes sense. And it's true that many of them are exceptionally good at whatever they choose to focus on.
It can be so frustrating to have Asperger's Disorder. People look at you and don't see anything wrong with you, so they expect you to act normal. When you don't act normal, and annoy the crap out of them, they look down on you and avoid you. It's an invisible disease and you know, if you can't see the disease, it doesn't exist. By the way, I have Asperger's Disorder. Also, my husband has noticed that I am very good at giving sarcasm, just not very good at all at getting sarcasm. Just thought I'd throw that little tid-bit out there. Oh, I have a question for anyone with Asperger's or knows someone with it. Is it common for Aspies to get Psychogenic Non-Epileptic Seizures? I started with them about a year and a month ago. I'm 27.
Caity --
Yes, like all mental syndromes, Aspergers is invisible, at least at first.
Sorry, I've never even heard of that kind of seizure, let alone whether it's co-morbid with Aspergers. But maybe someone out there knows better than me.
I came across this post researching how aspies respond to criticism, hoping that the more I understand the cognitive workings behind my own stubbornness, the less rigid I can be. It's. . .hard, but certainly needs to be done. While I will say that yes many of your points did make me somewhat angry, I cannot say that none of them were completely wrong. I guess the real reason why it would make me angry is simply because of my own fear that none of my traits will get better, that is, that I will not be able to function at an adequate social level (friends, hanging out, all that jazz), or rather I will not be able to without having some misunderstanding (or outright mistake on my part) from turning the relationship sour (the post seemed to have no indication such traits can be worked on. . .or however would be a good way to put it. of course, you are not obligated to do put such in your blogs).
So with all of that, may I ask some questions:
1. Can aspies improve their own traits (those that damage social relationships)?
2. Can an aspie be. . .over-concerned with their own behavior, perhaps even paranoid if it is a good word (I am constantly guilty of this. funny how since I normally hold back so much in interactions this is preventing me from moving any relationship forward. Now I am not trying to say I should not worry about my behavior at all; rather I want to be able to keep myself in check but still open myself up to people (essentially, hold back enough without holding back everything or being too afraid to interact))?
3. Lastly. . .are aspies. . .doomed to a life without fulfilling relations? Friendships with people who wish to be around you, who do not tire of you: normal everyday friendships? Or is this something, since it is so deep within my wiring, that can never be changed?
For the last one, I've been trying. I will go in circles for days sometimes, I frustrate myself out and other people sometimes, but I'm trying to get better. I know I have, well. . .I hope I have, gotten better in many respects. Now it's sorting out why I hold back so much and finding some comfort zone where I can keep myself in check while still being able to let loose. People tell me things usually along the lines of that I'm ok, that I need to be myself, that I shouldn't think too much or worry too much, yet whenever they tell me this I get severely frustrated. I guess it does because they conflict with this major idea (that I haven't been able to wedge my mind off of), the fact that since these behaviors are intrinsic to me and are completely natural for me, if I stop monitoring myself or be completely myself then my behaviors will naturally put people off, which I do not want (then again, me caring so much about people's opinions is also putting people off. . .). I need to find some middle ground. . .or should I stop caring all together? That of course I will argue against, I guess that is not good. No, it is not good at all.
Anyway, yes, I'm an aspie who's main interest is my own behavior and ability to communicate with people. I don't want to think AS is a death sentence to a life of solitude, which I am prone to thinking is proven by self-evident facts (not saying you specifically are saying this. . .), I want to improve, get better, and maybe even think that SOME traits maybe can actually work! Or maybe that's just wishful thinking. . .
So there's what I've been thinking. Any thoughts? (btw, I was diagnosed with AS as a kid, so not self-diagnosed. I can discuss the possibility of me not being autistic, but usually when people make the suggestion, rather state it as a fact, I get very. . .stubborn is the good word. good bad, I cannot say. this feels like a somewhat murky area. . .)
Zanglaful --
You sound as if you have a great attitude, despite your claims to being stubborn. Okay, your questions:
1. Sure, simply by being aware of the traits that damage relationships, you can work to minimize them. And it does sound as if you're pretty self-aware.
2. Sure, anybody can be so self-conscious that it becomes crippling. It sounds as if you're censoring yourself quite a bit. I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere between the dilemmas you've expressed in #1 and #2.
3. No, you're definitely not doomed to a life of solitude, especially with the self-aware attitude you've expressed. BTW, I sometimes wonder why more Aspies don't seek each other out. Other Aspie would be more understanding of each other, identify with each other's problems, and, ultimately, more sympathetic to each other. There must be support groups, somewhere.
It is interesting how people with asperger's use that fact when it is to their advantage, but protest vehemently when some generalized facts are written about the disorder. This is the most honest and accurate depiction of an aspie I have read, and I have been married to an aspie for 26 years. No,it is not just a difference any more than being born with low vision is a difference, it is a disability. The new age approach is to paint it in the best possible light. Well, if it is just a difference, not a disadvantage, don't use it to get protection under the Americans with Disabilities Act. And stay away from therapists that treat asperger's by telling people to look for jobs and people who accept them the way they are. What job is going to want someone who is constantly late, has a chaotic desk, and alienates co-workers? Therapy should include classes that help aspies learn empathy and communication, and they should be AFFORDABLE and covered by insurance!
Anon --
Thank you, that's a great point about the hypocrisy of hiding behind Aspergers on the one hand and then insisting it's not a disability on the other.
I think there are limits to how much therapy can help an Aspie. They are always going to not get jokes, and find other humans baffling. But by being aware of their condition, they can guard against natural Spies responses like becoming enraged at the slightest hint of criticism, always wanting their own way, etc.
I've actually been surprised by the reasonableness of some of the more recent commenters on this thread who are Aspies who are aware of their own limitations and want to change. (That hasn't been my own personal experience with them however.)
I have just come across your blog having had another fruitless discussion with my aspie husband about taking responsibility for his behaviour. He is everything you have described in your blog but I am still with him after 17 years because his aspergers actually affords him some positive traits which to me are invaluable. For instance I have all the freedom I need in the marriage. He can be alone for large amounts of time which gives me time to do my own thing. He is very kind and on a practical level will do anything for me although he finds it virtually impossible to do anything for me on an emotional level, despite trying. He is generous and non-judgemental but of course will not accept any criticism himself. I know he loves me and have had to be satisfied with his ways of showing it rather than how I would like him to show it. He is not a grudge bearer which goes along with him putting conversations and behaviour into compartments in his brain which can be forgotten. Yes, he is exceptionally frustrating to communicate with and rewrites history as far as previous conversations are concerned but despite all the times I have ready to leave I value his positive traits so much that I stay. I just wanted to point out that depending on what a person needs from a relationship, people with aspergers can provide a refreshing respite from overly dependent, judgemental and needy partners who want to be with you all the time. I love my husband for all his positive traits, but yes, sometimes I find his aspie traits too much to deal with, particularly when I am under stress and this will lead to a relationship meltdown. However, so far, we have been able to get over these meltdowns and make it OK again.
Anon --
Thanks for that. You seem to have adjusted to your situation well, which I suppose is the best that can be hoped for. I agree, needy people can also be draining, and Aspies are often content to be by themselves.
What is the purpose of this blog? To insult and ridicule people because of a disorder that they were BORN with? Do you think that people with Aspergers CHOOSE to, as you have so insensitively put it, be "lame"? Most of what you said is just NOT true. You make Autistic people sound like sociopaths which they are not - do your research. Judging by your writing, you are both ignorant and unintelligent. Maybe your obvious hatred for people with Aspergers is due to jealousy? Maybe you are jealous of our unique understanding of the world and our high IQs in comparison to your clearly lacking mind? Or maybe you are just lame?
Every paragraph in your article is infested with weasel words, making majority of your claims unfalsifiable. In case you're not familiar with the concept of weasel wording, allow me to cite the Wikipedia definition here:
A weasel word (also, anonymous authority) is an informal term for words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that a specific and/or meaningful statement has been made, when only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated, enabling the specific meaning to be denied if the statement is challenged.
In addition to that, you present zero evidence for most of your claims. In rare instances you do try to provide evidence, it's mostly anecdotal and interpreted using garden variety of cognitive biases.
Because all of this, your discourse here comes across as highly intellectually dishonest, thus not really worth an ounce of serious consideration.
tl;dr Your post indulges, perhaps a bit too voluptuously, in the noble art of bullshiting.
Hi I hope you can get to see this post! Iam an aspie & Iam not offended by your post. At first I was a little bit upset & then I read everything & I realized I have a problem. Iam really glad you wrote this article, it brought awareness to me. I hate everything about this disorder & I am on a mission to change. Iam going to reread your article hopefully I can learn something or change. I probably may not be able to change because of the "rigid thinking" you described. I acknowledge and accept my inability to accept Critism. Ps do I sound ok or do I sound like a messed up aspie ? ( I didn't know what other words to use other than messed up)
Anon --
Actually you sound perfectly fine. I admire your open-mindedness and willingness to change, which is actually rare among the neurotypical population as well.
I wish you the best and hope you're able to effect (most of) the changes you desire.
It means the aspergers personality has difficult characteristics to interract with. People with apergers are not bad. They are not hurtful on purpose. This helps me remember that even though someone with aspergers can come off like an asshole that they are still good people just having irritability and not coping very well.
Considering that 50% of marriages, generally, don't work out, and of those, many go onto marry 1-2x more, it's not THAT sad
Honestly for you to judge all Aspies as lame is pretty harsh, come on. I'm a woman recently diagnosed and I get the awkward 'call', but that doesn't make us lame en masse.
You've even just commented on that psychological phenomenon of people judging others on what they may see in themselves. That can apply to you as well. So you're aware.
It does kind of "sound" like you had an ex who had Aspergers and that you might be bitter. And as for some of the comments arriving your way proving your points, you are right in a sense. But when you attack people, people tend to get defensive. And one thing Aspies tend not to be good at is rather, 'bitching back'. Likely due to much
Sorry, my iPhone just doesn't mark a letter when I type it after awhile (and yes I'm blaming my iPhone, ha!)...
But to continue, from enduring humiliations while growing up, some attacks can bring back a lot
And this can cloud a person's thinking to defend themselves. Also, some aspies do develop narcissistic tendencies as a coping mechanism.
This doesn't mean that new ways of being can't be learned. And in my job I was extremely good at reading people. I participated in hiring people. When there was someone I had doubts about, later I was found right that they were untrustworthy, or not as skilled as they portrayed themselves to be, etc. So I'm not sure what gives there except maybe that I find psychology very interesting and have learned hard won lessons in what untrustworthy people act/sound li
Like/do etc and being able to overlay that info with the person in front of me. Like you, I can be quite judgemental sometimes. So I try to just operate as if everyone is above board until something outright may happen to prove otherwise.
I can list a number if men that I've known who were very much Cads, but I wouldn't judge all men that way, tempting as it is. And it seems for you to call us all lame, that's what you're doing based on less than a handful of people with this syndrome that you know. I don't think it ever hurts to have compassion for others. It seems almost like, as Anon. Had said, that you're providing a 'bitching post' for folks to blog in their disappointment with those in their lives that they just needed a quasi official reason to give them the approval to do so. Oh sorry, I coulda' said that in fewer words I suppose..
Telltale Sign --
"So I'm not sure what gives there except maybe that I find psychology very interesting and have learned hard won lessons in what untrustworthy people act/sound like."
I agree, psychology IS interesting, which is part of the reason i wrote this post. But what is the difference between being able to tell what an Aspie acts/sounds like and what an untrustworthy person acts/sounds like?
Also, what was interesting about so many of the responses I got on this post was that I didn't write the post about one person in particular, just about Aspies in general. And yet so many Aspies reacted like scalded cats, as if I had been speaking about each of them personally. (Thus illustrating my point about them not being able to take any criticism.)
Generally as I see other aspies that may not have adopted in similar ways as I did (or ways to 'fake it' better whatever), once they're (we're) in an environment where there's not so much possibility to be subject to ridicule and relax, we can be nice interesting people too. And yes, just like in the general population, some of us likely aren't nice.
And to refute one other thing, I diagnosed myself. I'd relay in meetings that I thought I had aspergers when I didn't get jokes - I think I kept hoping someone would say "hey, if you think... Go see so and do in HR", but that doesn't happen in real life. Didn't have it official until 7 yrs later!
John that honestly sounds like there was a concurrent mental disorder going on as most Aspies are not violent people. Though I do know one person who has strong aspie traits but these overlap with other diagnosis that he freely talks about, but is just as confounded by the doctors. Just sayin'.
Most aspies, particularly female, have really struggled to understand themselves in order to improve. I get the idea that the aspie people you've done fieldwork with might have had other issues also - we are all on a variety of spectrums of different types that make up who we are..
Sorry that your previous patience with people of our ilk was so taken for granted..
Sura now it seems you're taking a bit of a whining tone. Perhaps you should try to grow a lovely pair and utilize your boundaries that NT's are supposed to be so good at having. It would help yourself and likely the other person too. I have learned so much just from my normal social butterfly daughter. She'd give me fashion tips too as she was growing up, so cute. Sorry. I go off into detail too sometimes. I wonder if you were to use a hand gesture of like, "come on, your point please ?" Etc. Or come right out and say TMI! I've gotten my friends to do that for me. Together with a code word if I'm talking too much about my passions.. It does help.
And OMG, nails through your eyelids, really? What an awful graphic - if you stay around her much longer you're sure to start hating us all! Wait...(?)
Yikes, that part is us often, talking at people. Many times if there is some common thread spoken of that I know a little something about, I'll try to use that as my shoehorn to get in on
What feels so gloriously 'normal' for a bit... Just an assertive person in the group to press their point firmly would be helpful. See? How we can potentially help you NTs really have a mind for what you want to say? :0D
This sounds very OCD which admittedly overlaps with aspergers - hey are you sure, John and Sura, that you aren't talking of people that may have so called high functioning autism? The intl community does still see a difference between that and aspergers. It's just in North Americacwhere they're classed as the same since the syndrome of symptoms is so similar- I think it has something to do with directing resources appropriately with less bureaucratic headaches.
John I think you can stop wondering about stalkers being aspies. I've read many have delusional personality disorder or some such thing. I was stalked in the workplace - a genteel old man full of benevolent sexism, wanting to take you g newbies under is wing to get along in the corporate jungle. Before too long he's following me in weekends. I say come on your married, etc. To give the man an out, to say just kidding etc. Then he says calmly, a man I barely know, "oh! I would never leave my wife for you!"
Good god john what a horrible thing to say to a young mother!!
I was taking time to respond to many of the points posted to show another side but you've crossed the line of how a reasonable person should respond.
Very interesting how the rigidity you seem to be so exasperated by is fully evident in your comment to this woman - cue in whiny baby,"aspies suck, they all suck, and your baby when he grows up will suck"
How awful!!
You remind me of a very fat man who once ripped Into me at a party
I dared say I was vegetarian and he couldn't stand that someone said that! Accusing me if living on my high horse - GAWD - (the fat sweaty man!!)
People often say I might have Asperger even if I never had a diagnosis.
It is really difficult to fit in. While reading your article, it was evident that I have try all my life to be normal and I've been unsuccessful so far. People always end up noticing my incapacity to act normal in social situations.
Unlike your description, I'm quite aware that I have some sort of condition and I wish I could change with the flick of a wand and finally have fun with others but everytime I'm surrounded by neurotypical
I isolate myself more and more with time, because I can't tolerate when people notice I'm awkward.
I hope this article would have given me some peace but it hurts. I still have hope to fix my problem and someday be accepted in any groups.
>> "This is a bs article with nothing to back up its authors claims and really is just personal venting rooted in ignorance. No one should take you seriously."
> "I certainly am getting a lot of flak from the Aspie community, of which I assume you're a member. - In a roundabout way it proves me right: Aspies can't take criticism, and can never admit they're "wrong," or, as I describe them here, annoying."
The biggest problem in regards to you & your article is shown here in these two comments. As he said, your entire article is based on personal opinion & conjecture. It's also provocative, as i'm sure you can see if you look at the overall picture, you summed up the diagnosis as narcissistic, lame, & annoying. That isn't insightful, that is bordering on childish. If you said it was your personal experience then that would be fine, but your post implied it was a factual insightful look into the diagnosis.
Anytime you get critique you go back into a bigoted defense mode. Nobody likes critique, but to assume every time someone writes a provocative or negative response that they are an "aspie proving your point" is just silly. By that same broken logic i can assume you are an aspie because you are unable to handle critique.
you are rude and very ignorant I hope that your ignorance is your downfall you seem to think that people should not fit into society that have one type of disability or another. Is very stereotypical and is very wrong of you to think that I hope something drastic happens that makes you think otherwise.
Robert --
I may be rude, but I'm not ignorant when it comes to Aspergers, as I've had a lot of firsthand experience with it. And in fact it's the drastic experiences I've had with Aspies that have led me to the conclusions I've made. As you'll see if you read the comments above, there are plenty of Aspies who've taken great offense at my description of them, but there are also plenty of neurotypicals who've had similar experiences to mine who've agreed with me completely.
Also, I would never say that people with a certain disability SHOULDN'T fit into society; I merely explain WHY they don't.
Your post needs to be removed and your account deleted, it is highly offensive. Not all people are the same, even with aspergers. You surely are close minded and your out of sink, people deserve to be treated equally and you believe in outcasting people and making accusations on what you don't understand.
Robert --
It's "you're" not "your," "out of sync," not "out of sink," and "outcast" is not a verb. I never suggested people should not be treated equally, you put those words in my mouth; I only said that people don't ACT similarly, and you're living proof of that.
The whole point of the post is to help neurotypicals understand what they are dealing with when they run across someone like you.
Yesterday I saw a psychiatrist & a therapist who both examined me. I do not have aspergers. I have severe deppression & anxiety mostly due to being tramatized at a young age by my brother . This is what people who have aspergers can do . I forgave him a million times for all the atrocities he commited against me. He still used me as a means to an end & then demanded he was the victim . . I hope this is a good brief example of how aspergers people affect others.
If someone wants to read this part feel free but it's long ..
I will not go into full detail about what happened but basically he emotionally abused me. I kept coming back either because I'm a doormat or I loved him. He continually betrayed me . He also tried to make it look like I did terrible things that he did. He does that to a lot of people. One example of many questionable things I found traumatic. He also called me up on the phone as a child & told me he was watching me and he was coming to kill me . I was 3-6 years old & I didn't know it was him. It happened at night, maybe 4 times. I told him & apparently this was hilarious to him. He admitted he did it . I even told him he hurt me, I'm scared . He laughed at me & looked like he enjoyed it. As an adult I have problems sleeping & trusting men or opening myself up to them.
Anon --
Are you saying your brother has Aspergers?
Honestly, it sounds more to me as if he's a sociopath. Either way, sorry about your horrible childhood.
This article reduces people with Aspergers to a caricature. General characteristics of the condition are carried to an absurd extreme (e.g. "They are rigid in their thinking, to the point where they must ignore facts. They generally only willingly expose themselves to one viewpoint."--ridiculous!) and many of the examples cited (e.g. regarding the sailfish) are most likely the author's own contemptuous fabrication. The author is clearly not an authority on Aspergers (if he was he would know that Aspies are extreme individualists and therefore highly unlikely to join a cult or the military--which impose an external and foreign 'rigidity' beyond their control), just someone who has an axe to grind (for some unknown reason) with people who have been so-diagnosed. He should also consider the fact that Aspergers Syndrome is one of the most over-diagnosed disorders in modern medicine and, consequently, that some of the individuals he holds up as examples may not even be sufferers of this condition. His statement regarding the impossibility of self-diagnosis is incorrect in the respect that many individuals, before being formally diagnosed, correctly self-identified themselves with the condition. It is also important to note that though Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Aspergers may produce apparently similar patterns of behaviour in some cases, they originate from very different neurological conditions which allow narcissists to be socially adept when they chose to be, an option which the vast majority of Aspies do not possess.
If this article is a tongue-in-cheek test to draw in literal minded Aspies and others offended at your reductionist comments, and/or idiots who agree with them, it has clearly succeeded in its objectives.
Hello, let's say my name is "Lyle" for the purposes of anonymity. I was diagnosed with the syndrome about a decade ago, and I can honestly say it wasn't until about February of this year that this article changed my life. I know, it sounds super silly, but it's true. At first, this shit really enraged me, but after a few more once-overs I realized that you were on track. You hit the nail on the hammer, bud. In fact... it was a scary feeling. Like my entire being had been laid out and analyzed - like a recipe.
I think one of the reasons you're getting so much hate is that this article really doesn't leave any glimmer of hope. My perception was "You're broke, and that's it." How is that supposed to make me feel? Happy? Then again, maybe a slap to the face was needed.
One of the subjects you didn't touch on (and probably couldn't) is that people with Aspergers are extremely good at self-deception. For years I moved through life like a lucid dream, never really realizing the full weight of my actions and behaviors. Maybe that indicates some connection or relation with sociopaths? Eh, I'm not an expert on psychology.
Anyway, hopefully I can break this mold of hate and be the one to say that you are dead right. I'll do what normal people do and get on with my life.
Lyle --
I appreciate both your open-mindedness and honesty, your comment was a breath of fresh air.
And you're right, I should have left more of a sense of hope at the end of the post. Aspergers -- or autism of any sort -- is an organic condition, and in that sense it can't be "cured," but it can certainly be worked around, once it's been acknowledged.
BTW, I don't think Aspergers is similar to sociopathy, in fact I often think of them as being almost diametrically opposed. Sociopaths are good at reading people, and then manipulating them based on that read. The Aspies I've known haven't been good at that, and are also relatively honest as a group, though they are prone to self-deception, as you point out.
-Mike condel here-
WARNING: FELLOW NT MALE HERE SO HEAR ME OUT BROTHER:
first of all I WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS MY GREETINGS TO YOU FROM TEXAS,I am loyal Christian and firm conservative patriot names ltd. M. Condell of USMC, an Afghan war vet (2009-2014) and from a fellow American to another I’d say I am very honored to acquaint you, you come across as an intellectually critical and rationale minded fellow you eloquently type with reasonable style based on stone cold facts, unlike the swarm of geese infesting your comment thread right now by effeminate, whiny, delusional, weak, clumsy over sensitive beta male aspies with their 100 story high filled garbage bags of nonsense.
but before I officially form a response to the mob hate you’re getting from moaning aspies, as well as trimming some of the things you said, I would like to state that Ive read tons of your posts regarding many different matters and I can see that you are what America desperately needs: a wise strong masculine conservative man who simply isnt afraid to call a spade a spade, a man who rejects perversions such as homosexuality and would want to uphold the values of this nation and most of all restore our ever eroding masculinity thx to rotten minded ultra-feminist leftists who project their ridiculous childish rhetoric hiding behind the banner of political correctness which really is an ocean of emotions yet devoid of logic. Even though its infuriating to swallow the Marxist medias blatant doublestandardness beyond belief its atleast gladdening that you are one of us brother.
John, everything you posted couldn’t have been more accurate ranging from - The blunt cluelessness/obliviousness, to the atrocities level of immaturity, the physical and mental clumsiness, the absolute lack of common sense, their notoriously pathetic sense of humor, to the self-centeredness , to the garden variety hypocrisy which they so bindingly display (and lastly I would like to add another trait of theirs which is being shamelessly effeminate)- nevertheless may be that as it be however, allow me to correct your only yet very fundamental flaw in your post. Truth is all those descriptions of disabilities and lousy personalities SHOULD invariantly apply ONLY to the males.
Well you see my fiancé is a beautiful aspie woman we have 2 NT boys and a 3rd one in her womb, My fiance probably is the world’s biggest (male) aspie hater she has several male aspie relatives and she had to deal with their childish obnoiouxness and plain stupidity her whole life and is disgusted by their lack of balls and brain and spine, I took pleasure in physically teaching those beta fucks a lesson one by one, my fiancé is so glad that she bore the superior sons of A NT male.
I say this because most aspie women share a lot more traits with us NT males than they do with aspie males, they are very hyper sexual, practical, rational, ingenious mathematically and scientifically and ill add that they are more coordinated and athletic than NT women and finally dare say that her boobs and backside are curvylicious!=) HAHAHAHAHAHA ……..I am just busting your balls with that one
Individually and socioeconomically they manage really well for themselves my Fiancé is a graduate of Berkley for programming and has a steady technical job, they manage rather easily to accomplish something in their life to secure their financial status and live independently but only lack (although way ahead of aspie men) social conventions and unlike the males are very rational and intelligent although not such luxury is possessed by their male counterparts.Isn’t it obvious that 90% of the complaints’ about aspies on online forums are directed towards ass-pie males and that the only intelligent and rationale comment authors in this thread happen to be FEMALE aspies. NT men have a god given duty to kill off the weak aspie men and breed with the aspie women to override their recessive genes with our superior sons. Spread the message the problems are aspie men not sexy beautiful babes like my Fiancé.
MIke Condel --
Thank you for all your kind words and for having read so many posts. And yes, political outlook does seem to vary with masculinity. And finally, thank you for your service.
I'm glad that things are working out well with your fiancee, but I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree about female Aspies. Several examples I used in the post were actually descriptions of a female Aspie I know. Females in general tend to be more pliable and less stubborn than males, but Aspergers is Aspergers, and in my experience -- which is all I can write about -- females Aspies can be quite frustrating to deal with.
There have actually been a few male Aspies who've written in on this thread who've been reasonable, acknowledged the truth of my description of as pie behavior, and have indicated a willingness to try to change. (Though most have just lashed out at me.)
-mike condell- I see your point of them being frustrating because they have sensory issues and social blindness and stubborn cold turkey dismissal of criticiscm other than my exceptional fiance I would say I agree with you in regards to even the females. but the thing is since aspergers has strong gender incoherence elements in it, this allows the females to have a more masculinized brain during fetal development, (similarly like gays and lesbian) than normal women therefore at least equipping them with some usefull abilities and traits that aspie men notoriously lack, like working out mathamatics,science and mechanics smoothly,being skilled or abled in performing a practical task without clumsiness,being very well coordinated with great spatial awareness and hand dexterity(ie they are good drivers). My sweetheart has these strong positive traits aswell as reduced and milder social blindness however over the top affective empathy than average The point is that the women who do get extremely frustrating to be around due to their absolute social obliviousness but they atleast posses good intelligence coupled with strong positive traits and abilities that I mentioned above. The girls atleast manage to grad. school and college and land a descent career/job like you know they can actually contribute to society in some ways although the same thing happening with the men would be a fantasy to say the least. Trust me if you read forums on wrongplanet(aspie website) all the men there, in overwhelming numbers complain about missing those traits like a bunch of 4 year olds but only a minority of the women claim to not have those aswell
Idk man that was just my shot in the dark there you obviously are more equipped on this topic than I,so id like to hear your opinion on that.
You give off an Aspie vibe actually John Craig, which is quite ironic. Just remember youre external observations do not mean you are right about everything in regards to Aspergers so don't be all arrogant when Aspies express their disapproval of your opinions.
Laughing Child --
I'm curious: how do I give off an Aspie vibe?
This is a great post.
My brother calls himself high functioning autistic. The high functioning bit is a bit of a joke, however I guess it means he can shower himself. Since my Mum's death 3 years ago he:
1/ Contacted the Coroner telling them I poisoned her. Turns out she poisoned herself with alcohol over 40 years, but that didn't stop my brother blaming me (she was aspi too, undiagnosed)
2/ Blamed me for just about everything since. He stopped talking to me after my Mums death, but didn't explain why.
3/ Now we have some business to finish off as we jointly hold a trust - the bull@#$% he has put me through. I'm over it! Every email is blame blame blame.
I agree I have to be compassionate. Compassion starts at home, which means I can't wait to be free of him. He's married an aspi female (undiagnosed) who hates all females (including me).
I like your honesty. I'm on the spectrum but not 'officially' aspi. This means I try hard to improve my social skills all the time and read a lot to understand neurotypicals.
Anon --
Thank you.
Yikes, that's a difficult situation you're in. My honest opinion, most Aspies aren't that bad. (You for instance, though if in fact you do have it, it seems to be at a very low level.)
If you want to get a sense of how some Aspies like to blame, read some of the comments after this post; a lot of them hate me for having described them accurately. (Of course, they would disagree that I described them accurately.)
There's something about your sister-in-law hating all females which sounds very Asperger-ish. I know an Aspie woman who is just the opposite, she will always root for a woman over a man, and can't bear to hear a man complimented (she will always point out that the man's wife is just as capable.) Etc. Sort of the same thing, but in reverse.
Thank you so much for this article I had a friend who had about half of the symptoms you described so I looked it up and it turns out that he did have Aspergers.
Sorry for all the negative comments you get
Ps I'm glad you posted an article that had proof (aspie friends ect)
Anon --
Thank you. It's not problem with the negative comments; Aspies are used to being told they are "differently abled," etc, so when someone describes their behavior accurately, they get angry. The negative comments don't bother me.
I'm not sure what "proof" I offered in the post, but the high number of commenters who've said it was an accurate description are proof enough for me. (And the behaviors I described are actually those of a couple of aspires I've known.)
As has been said, aspies vary a lot, and you seem to have quite a narrow view of what an aspie is and there is some confirmation bias in the way you are categorising the aspie responses - those who leap in with angry responses that seem to confirm your view, as counter-productive as a man who punches you for saying he's violent, you view as typical aspies, whereas those of us who present to you in a more reasonable and civil manner you view as more mildly aspie. We're all equally aspie, just as a short man is just as much of a human as a tall man even though there's less of him (you may feel that that is a rotten analogy, opinion is often divided on the quality of my analogies). Some of the ways in which it manifests itself in different aspie individuals is so different it seems contradictory, for instance we have a reputation for being logical and unemotional, yet some of us saw your post and disagreed with it so much that we leapt in to vent without thinking through what effect that would have, and made your post look more accurate than it was.
I'm sorry about the experiences you've had with some very exasperating people, I think I'd find them exasperating to an extent too. In particular it angers me when I realise that someone I've been discussing something with can't be reasoned with like you describe (I don't just mean having a different opinion to me which I can't change!) - I feel that I have a limited capacity for interacting fully with people each day and when I realise that they are impervious to logic I feel that I've wasted some of it on them, when I could have either engaged with them on a more superficial level or just not engage with it at all (like all the aspies who will have seen your post and not responded, leaving an unrepresentative selection to respond - in fact even those who saw your post are unrepresentative of the range of us!)
I'm glad you were able to vent, venting is good and necessary. I'm also glad that you did it so publicly, as I can see from the comments that it's been of great comfort to many people who were dealing with difficult situations and feeling very alone.
I think that deep down in a lot of ways I'm not so different from a lot of these other sorts of aspies I seem so different from, I guess that a big thing is - as we go through our lives, as aspies, in this mostly neurotypical world, what do we learn from this? If anything? How do we grow? If we grow at all? For instance, I have no interest in talking about my many special interests (yes, including buses - I find it very curious that some interests are so heavily aspie-skewed!) to people who don't already share them. And I genuinely am not motivated to do so, it's not that I have a tremendous urge to do so but have learned to supress it because of negative responses. But perhaps once, long ago, that's what it started out as, perhaps after putting my hand in the fire twenty times and getting burned I paused before the twenty-first and asked myself "what am I getting out of this?" Confirmation bias might look at this and think "Aha! This is how a sneaky smart aspie learns how to seem less aspie!" but I don't think it's really so difficult from the social development of people who aren't aspies.
Wow.
I have Asperger's and I must say that nearly everything frustration I read from NT people about the Aspie is almost identical to what Aspies say to themselves about their NT friends. I thought about this and though its a stretch of the imagination my therapist actually thought it might have some merit. I believe Aspies operate on a different social wavelength than NT people. There may actually be some brain physiology that supports my hypothesis. Try asking an Aspie if NT friends are frustrating. Make sure you insist they tell the truth. I bet you'll find some surprising answers.
One issue clearly established in the research literature is the terrible rate of bullying inflicted on children and young adults who are on the ASD spectrum by neurotypicals and its equally terrible impact on the adult lives of the victims - or at least those who don't become suicides at an early age.
The marginalisation, othering and bullying of neurodiverse populations is a tragic fact of Western culture which encourages the bullying, and in my opinion - such as it is - your opinion piece fits with the definition of "othering", so it is part of the problem, not the shining authoritative light that you appear to believe it is, not a solution but a sharpened knife hidden behind a pretence of objectivity and 'fairness'.
Anon --
By all means, let's cover up the truth then.
And your bit about me seeing myself as a "shining authoritative light" seems to be a bit of projection.
Projection? Whatever, have it your way and so be it. You seem to habitually respond to critics with ad hominem remarks, please review your responses and note how often you have done this.
Anna --
I'm not about to wade through all the comments, but if you're so inclined, why don't you do so and see that I generally only respond with ad hominem remarks when such have been directed at me.
I would use your previous comment as an example: "your opinion piece is…..not the shining authoritative light that you appear to believe it is,"
Are you seriously trying to suggest that this comment is not dripping with venom? As I said, projection.
I have friends who I am pretty certain have aspergers and/ or adhd. I too have both aspergers, add, and bipolar. I feel like you article was only partially accurate in the case of my friends and I. I have a hard time taking criticism but I do not rage about it. My reaction is always sadness. I am told a lot that I am overly sensitive, but many people say that I'm really really nice. I also apologize, apparently too often according to some people. I also do not like change, but I do not flip out or anything. I always keep my mouth shut if something bothers me. I like many others take everything literally, which does get me in trouble. I am pretty sociable and would willingly have a one on one conversation with a person. It is just things like crazy parties that are overwhelming for me. I was a little offended by your article. You didn't mention many good traits. For example, I have excellent visual spatial skills but am impaired in speech. What I'm getting at is that for all the negative things you wrote about, there are good things too.
Anon --
I don't doubt that. You wrote a very reasonable and cogent comment.
I wrote about my experience with people with Aspergers; I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions as well as variants.
Aspergers plus bipolar must be a heavy cross to bear.
My friends have aspergers and they are a lot nicer than what you described here. Yes they do display a decent amount of these traits, but you make people with asperger's seem obnoxious. I myself have aspergers, add, and bipolar. I do not display a lot of what you posted. People tell me I'm really really nice but also overly sensitive. I respond to criticism with sadness not rage. I also am involved in many social activities and have a decent amount of friends (not just friends with aspergers). I do not like parties because to noise and all the activity is too much for me. I am highly intuitive. I have the INFJ personality. I don't know if that's the typical personality of aspies. I was disappointed that you failed to mention positive traits. For example, I have incredible spatial skills but fail when it comes to speech. This is an aspie thing. I was reading you comments, and I know you said that you wrote this article out of frustration. I just want you to know that for every negative aspie trait, there is a positive one also.
Anon --
Not sure if you wanted both of those comments posted (they are slightly different). If you want me to delete one of them I will. (I already responded to your first one.)
I have High Functioning Autism (HFA). I'm not going to "shame" this writing. This blog is actually very accurate. It fails the deeper heartfelt issue on the HFA person's side; their personal justifications as to why "we" do what we do (our excuses or cause); but everyone has that; even murders claim excuse to justify their faults. We NEED outside people to write stuff like this and point out what we refuse to acknowledge or can't see so that we may BEGIN to see it and change or reduce the imperfection. The point of the post is not to be "heartfelt" and it's not written from an HFA perspective so that tone should not be demanded. The tone is appropriate. Example; a Japanese person won't pretend to be an American when critiquing America; they will do it as a Japanese citizen with Japanese values in their favor. If we can't embrace all of us having a unique perspective (regardless to agreeing or not); then what's the point? Keep life interesting. This blog post pretty general. NOWHERE does it say anything actually shaming unless the reader takes it as such. He is NOT saying we don't have good qualities too; because we do. Likewise, the author is also not saying anyone is "superior". It's not about them; that would be off topic; from what I got the post is about FAULTS in HFA people. As an individual we all have some tweaked quirks; including how their gender, culture, education, or basic temperament effects how their Aspergers or High Functioning is displayed (example; not all people on spectrum will have every single "symptom" described in this blog post; but it gives a good enough visual of someone with Asperger's; even if that "someone" is not specifically identical to the HFA reading; and that should be kept in mind by the reader before they are offended). I saw some of the "dark" sides of myself here that I don't like. We ALL have faults. I've learned to improve and be self aware via a therapist. I agree you at least need professional consultation for a diagnosis. I am not officially diagnosed (via tests, and paperwork to stand in court or disability services in my favor should I ever need them) because the procedure cost $2000. I can't afford it; but I did have a licensed therapist suggest I get tested and this therapist worked with me for two years on issues dealing with autism and improving social skills. Yes; it was very shocking to learn and see character traits I had been blind to for years but how else do you improve? I WAS in a cult for 13 years. Learning about HFA and that I was as this post described; opened my eyes to get out. I live a better life. I'm still not perfect and will always have HFA but I am not as bad anymore; it's like having the same traits only tones down a few notches or expressed more appropriately; or at least being more aware more often of what is going on; before I was oblivious most my life. I have learned for the better and am still working on being my best self.
Del Dae --
Thank you for that, and I congratulate you on your tough-mindedness, sense of perspective, and initiative.
Try being Aspie with an Aspie kid who pushes ALL your buttons (including making me repeat myself). I don't want to be here anymore. I just want to walk away.
He attacked, because of the resentful, possibly bitter, tone of your "observation". And that was your intent, baiter that you are. You only described your experience with four people who were probably all aquainted. I personally know flocks of "normal" "jackasses" that can't admit that they're wrong. You're not describing "aspies". You're describing a demographic that exists in every group of people.
If Aspergers friendship is hard, try Aspergers love affairs.
Can't admit he cares, is rigid in his good/bad thinking, can't offer emotional support to me, but is frightened of being discarded and clings. Blames me for not being a Christian but can't forgive my shortcomings. Easily hurt. Periodically melts down and rants at me then seems to forget he ever said any of those dreadful things. Can't have an adult discussion about our relationship that might get us on an evener keel--it drives him to nervous evasion, panic and then anger.
Why do I stay? Brilliance, often charming, often sweet, occasionally kind. And infinitely touching in his defencelessness against some of the world's slings and arrows. As a relationship, heartbreaking and doomed.
Your Aspergers friend or lover needs to accept and take responsibility their faults and go to a professional combined with self help to learn better coping and social skills. Like with group of people there are many personalities on the autism spectrum with their own histories, genetics and upbringing like everyone else. Being "Aspie" myself I was mind blind and naive to this fact and had assumed everyone on spectrum was more similar to myself (maybe different in interests and hobbies but I assume they were similar in temperament or in how they treated and felt towards others) I had a few relationships with autistic men thinking we could "relate" or find some bond that I've missed out on with other people since we were both being on spectrum. One of them was a horrible abusive human being and I learned the lesson that no matter your neurology; an autistic person can also have a mental illness unrelated to autism and a jerk is a jerk and there are both kind and selfish people both with and without autism; it's not the autism which makes people bad; it's their choices, how they treat others and their states of mind. Autistic people are capable of intentionally harming others. What I mean is different than if someone accidentally harms another out of ignorance; which happens often with austitics via not being good with social rules but this can be changed with proper education. This being said; I am not good at romantic relations and choose to be single so there might be a line of truth with saying love is "doomed at the start" given the complex social skills needed to be good at a healthy relationship and physical sensitivities or needing tons of alone time or not knowing the proper ways to comfort someone are all hardships on the other partner.
You know nothing about aspergers so please keep your mouth shut
We are only difficult when we are attacked by prudes like you.
This post is disgusting and unacceptable and you should be ashamed.
As an adult with Aspergers, I am impressed by John's combination of lucidity and sensitivity. It's a rather difficult balance for anybody to strike, and I think some of us need to take a step back and give the guy some credit.
It's easy to feel as though this article portrays us in a negative light, but if you take the time to read it carefully, I think you will find that it is mostly fair and accurate in describing our condition for people who don't understand Aspergers and why we struggle the way we do.
Note from the outset that John points out the difference in the way our brains are wired. That's not laying blame. It's clarifying a fact we can't do anything about.
Also that one of the key behaviors that marks us is constantly striving to appear normal. For me, that manifests in a constant desire for personal improvement, and I find acting upon that desire to be the best outlet for my fixations, which John also describes.
To that end, I find it best to be honest about specific scenarios when they arise and apologise to people when I see that something I've done has offended them. In the rare instance they choose to judge or shame, that's their problem and I'll choose to keep my distance from them. Most of the time I gain the opportunity to ask how I can do things better and add to my personal growth.
It's also helpful to point out things that are triggers for me, like yesterday when I was invited to a drumming class and I pointed out that thirty people drumming is likely to cause me a migraine. And that doesn't even touch the fact when I encounter that large a group of people I've never met every coping mechanism I've learned pretty much goes out the window.
Like a lot of people in the comments, I used to get offended quite often. These days not so much. Asking questions about what a person has said makes it easier to understand what they are trying to convey.
In short, it's worth the struggle to understand others because we end up understanding ourselves so much better as well. And that leads to greater quality personal interactions.
Kieron --
Thank you for your balanced view.
Oh this article is so good. I'm a bordline sociopath and I have Asperger's. I read your article and thought you and idiot. Simply because you insulted the shit out of aspies everywhere. Also, were you aware you were comparing the two right away? Of course you were. Silly rabbit. My EQ is 146 - the highest emotional intelligence money can buy. :) My IQ is 126 and I'm a weird fuck. Want me to take some stuff out of context so you can attack me too? Don't fucking kid yourself.
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